I'm Sorry Everyone - Here's The Reason I Acted That Way

[Astral Explorer]

Likes are attracted to likes.. sounds familiar eh?

[Podshell]

I go through periods of telling myself its just a delusion, but then memories pop up of things which I want to dismiss but cannot, is there a name for that type of thing, it happens with strange occurences whether paranormal or not, people bury this experience straight away in the hope they go away.

For instance after my brother died, my sister came in amazed telling me she had just seen him , overtime though she dismissed it as a dream she had.

Now talking about AP and proof, I dont know what happened here , but when I was young I was coming in the house after playing out, looking through the living room window , I saw my mother peeling potatoes, but as I went in the house , she wasn't there in the living room, but in the kitchen peeling spuds , exactly behind the wall where I saw her, now was she day dreaming due to the boring task and her astral projecting? I definitely witnessed her in the living room while her physical body was not there

12padams wont fully convert unless he experiences something not scientific but as close as possible to undeniable proof.

No one wants to convert you , except mb summerlander and yourself.
I don't know your problems , I don't know why you need so badly to believe
in something, but it is obvious.This forum is not a place for proving anything to atheists.
On the other hand, I understand summerlander's need to spam us,
man is just professional spiritualist and sells his philosophy for living.

Originally Posted by ZOV

No one wants to convert you , except mb summerlander and yourself.
I don't know your problems , I don't know why you need so badly to believe
in something, but it is obvious.This forum is not a place for proving anything to atheists.
On the other hand, I understand summerlander's need to spam us,
man is just professional spiritualist and sells his philosophy for living.

Why do you keep using the word "sell" when it comes to summerlander... It's all free info that you can agree or disagree with!

Oh and the reason I need so badly to know if astral projection is in the mind or not is extremely important because it's literally a matter of life or death. As much as I really wanna give you the reason I can't because I am not allowed to and it's against the tos of these forums (not suicide related... Much worse). Just understand that it's the most important thing in the world right now and effects everyone and I have less than 4 months to work out the answer otherwise I'll be kicked off the team of people who believe in the beyond much more than anyone on these forums and that will be the end for me :(

Originally Posted by Podshell

One problem with that quote summerlander is SL is assuming that there is no external input while dreaming, therefore he is already concluding that no astral body movement is taking place.

Yes, no movement takes place. Even movement is illusory. If you could play with the thalamus region of the brain you would experience some funny sensations in relation to space, movement and sense of being.

[Podshell]

But this guy seems to have already concluded that no stimulas is acting on the brain via the astral/physical.

They did experiments where they manipulated the brain with magnetism or something and they could reproduce feelings of projection and entities (I think these were later debunked) but the fact that we can do this via manipulation , does not disprove actual projection. It could be compared to saying that if we can create a CGI image of the queen, then it is likely the queen does not exist and is more likely to be a created image than a reality.


Also I don't think proof of God comes into this, not many people inbetween lives during regression, or OBEs/APrs claim to have witnessed God. Or what they are certain was God

The person who conducted experiments that you may be referring to was Michael Persinger with his God Helmet. Stimulating the brain does cause individuals to have these experiences.

You can look at it in two ways: either brain activity is indicative of these experiences being generated by it OR the brain activity is an indication or symptom or the self being active in another realm of existence. Whichever way you want to look at it.

I'm merely pointing out that the astral plane business is only a theory. Just like when people get their "hits" in said state of consciousness... it doesn't necessarily prove the existence of an astral plane. It could be that telepathy is being allowed within a global consciousness contained within the magnetic field. Maybe our minds are quantum entangled (and in fact matter can become entangled as Einestein referred to it: spooky action at a distance).

On the other hand we also have a hard time dismissing coincidences. Please note that I am not here to dismiss an afterlife as this can still be possible... but not in the way that most people think.

If you check OBE4u, you will see that I tend to argue against believers as much as I argue against diehard sceptics. I try to get people to realise that the only thing we can be sure of at the moment is uncertainty.

At this stage, I am more preoccupied with the practical ends of the phase state rather than struggling with its elusive nature. To be fair, people can't even seem to agree on what dreams really are.

Like I said, you don't have to take any of what I said in my topic as gospel and the best you can do is experience it for yourself, experiment with it hard and try to come up with logical conclusions.

A fair knowledge of the brain and its functions will come handy, because, whether we like it or not, it is undoubtedly linked to consciousness.

[Podshell]

You can look at it in two ways: either brain activity is indicative of these experiences being generated by it OR the brain activity is an indication or symptom or the self being active in another realm of existence. Whichever way you want to look at it.

I don't see why both cannot take place, just like we can simulate real physical worlds with technology. and we can also physically go there.

Regards dreams, I think they can be numerous things, to try to pin them down to one single thing may not be the right way to go.

Well, if you look at this issue closer, the "real world" exists only in your imagination, too.

It's really a philosophic subject, we can talk about how we perceive the world forever.

Originally Posted by 12padams

Summerlander = 29 years old
12padams = 18 years old

Reason they act similar = both came from the same website which hosts a "its all in your head" approach to astral projection.

Summerlander won't convert unless he is given absolute scientific proof
12padams wont fully convert unless he experiences something not scientific but as close as possible to undeniable proof.

Reason Summerlander came: He noticed I had joined this forum and checked it out then realized it went against his beliefs.

So if i understand this correctly we on this site are your lab experiment to be poked and provoked in to giving you the proof that you require. If we dont then your ego's can reign supreme as head of the department.

For me personally i dont feel that your objective is worthy of taking someones time and energy or that your crusade is honerable enough for me to participate in . I have met up with another on multiple occasions and confirmed the information that we shared in the astral. I could validate a lot of the theories and actually assist you in experiencing some of them for yourselves. I almost said i would help you yesterday and would have if my lunch break didnt end though i am thankful that it did. Why do i feel that i got to experience this, because it was for the sole purpose of healing others. I doubt that i would have had the same result if my ambition was driven by writing a book to enhance my ego. Im not sure that sneeking you in to the cue is the best way to go about helping you have an astral experience that you may not be ready for.

So summerlander came here to challenge people because as you said" He noticed I had joined this forum and checked it out then realized it went against his beliefs". I am not sure that this is sharing a spiritual experience and may go against the beleifs of this web site and its purpose to provided a place that people can feel safe to open up and explore their spiritual beliefs. Joining for this reason is not very honerable either nor appreciated by many im sure.

Once you step over the boundary of science in the astral phenomena it is no longer with in the bounds of science, therefore how can anyone gain scientific proof of something that does not exist within the scientific community. To believe in it will most probably see you out of that community and in to ours.

Please forgive me for being a bit blunt as this is not expressed with anger though i do believe that anyone that has to quote anothers words from a book to prove a point does not have the personal experience themselves to be given due respect on that matter.