How authentic are the Hadiths?

[Gem]

Originally Posted by sky123

Great minds think alike

Conversely, fools seldom differ, and isn't alikeness more the trait of fools who live in imitation of a collective icon and adhere to the collective world view? It becomes a great paradox where he who sees furthest and thus conform least is that exemplary fool who defines the wisdoms of normalcy, and that quest for popularity and reverence and respect is reduced to acceptability and praise from the conformed ranks? Indeed, in this context, the mere utterence of 'intuition', that empty word, is the hallmark of wisdom, like an empty house is a shell unlived in, and actual homes are not alike as we might imagine a home to be, but rather eccentric and bizarre in fact.

Oh yes, we speak the same language and adopt the same paradigms of what makes a house a home, but the real lived home is indeed quite the freakshow. In the public eye, we know what to say, how to make impressions, and 'it resonates with my intuition' - we already know they are wise words. We hear them so repeatedly, such reiterations, such cliches, but we require them so as to preserve our notions of 'what is wise', without which we'd have no bearing and be unable to discern between that outcast form and the sage-like icons that cast this spiritual role-play, with its temple theaters and well rehearsed lines, where mere utterance 'resonates' with the accepted dialectic; the memorised style which defines the spiritual genre.

If you find any other interesting info: please post the links.

[sky]

" Conversely, fools seldom differ "

" Wear your ego like a loose fitted garment "

[Gem]

Originally Posted by sky123

" Wear your ego like a loose fitted garment "

Who is that a quote by?

[TheImmortal]

Originally Posted by Shadow Of A Knight

sahih muslim + sahih bukhari
are the most trust hadith sources
partially because they never relied on single source of hadith
meaning the same hadith was told by more than one person or two
a group of people who were all tested for honesty

one time " muslim " the collector of hadith
travelled all the way long journey to see some one who claimed he had hadith he saw him fooling the cow to get into barn by pretending to have food and that was enough reason for muslim to refuse his hadith

saying just like you lied to this animal .. you could lie to me as well

http://www.searchtruth.com/hadith_books.php

can be found here

Thanks for the link. I will check it out. I too have heard that the Bukhari hadith is the most reliable and hence the most frequently quoted.

[TheImmortal]

Originally Posted by Gem

I think 'pure intuition' sets up an entirely unassailable position of righteousness.This is indicated by the extreme nature of your example of wrongfulness - a quite undeniable portrayal that fortifies this stance, but what of the situation which is less than ideal, and isn't hypothetical, were to kill is an appropriate response to the circumstances regardless of the reflexive recoil at the horror of it - where that most primal avoidance mechanism is in direct affront to noble gestures such as protection and the preservation of life.

I don't determine the truth, because there aren't conclusions, and these paradigms in which truth is definitive are like a shifting shape of the mirage in a desert where the truth is like scarce water which may dry out, while common shimmers of heat are so common and reliable.

I sense that you may be baiting me with your opening line, "I think 'pure intuition' sets up an entirely unassailable position of righteousness", but I'm not taking the bait in the hope that it was not intended that way.

Lord Jesus once said "Blessed are the pure of heart for they shall see (realize) God". Are you suggesting that this is not possible? Is it not a worthy aspiration ?

The discussion would seem to proceed more constructively if the focus shifted to HOW does one become established in "purity of heart" and thus discover what "resonates" most in the reported scriptures of all traditions.

[TheImmortal]

Originally Posted by Shadow Of A Knight

sahih muslim + sahih bukhari
are the most trust hadith sources
partially because they never relied on single source of hadith
meaning the same hadith was told by more than one person or two
a group of people who were all tested for honesty

one time " muslim " the collector of hadith
travelled all the way long journey to see some one who claimed he had hadith he saw him fooling the cow to get into barn by pretending to have food and that was enough reason for muslim to refuse his hadith

saying just like you lied to this animal .. you could lie to me as well

http://www.searchtruth.com/hadith_books.php

can be found here

I accessed your link and read some of the Bukhari Hadiths on punishment. They are troubling. There is none of this stuff in the Qu'ran.

http://www.searchtruth.com/book_disp...2&translator=1

[TheImmortal]

Originally Posted by Shadow Of A Knight

sahih muslim + sahih bukhari
are the most trust hadith sources
partially because they never relied on single source of hadith
meaning the same hadith was told by more than one person or two
a group of people who were all tested for honesty

one time " muslim " the collector of hadith
travelled all the way long journey to see some one who claimed he had hadith he saw him fooling the cow to get into barn by pretending to have food and that was enough reason for muslim to refuse his hadith

saying just like you lied to this animal .. you could lie to me as well

http://www.searchtruth.com/hadith_books.php

can be found here

I accessed your link and read some of the Bukhari Hadiths on punishment. They are troubling. There is none of this stuff in the Qu'ran.

http://www.searchtruth.com/book_disp...2&translator=1

How can I tell whether these hadiths are "authentic", "good", or "weak" according to Muslim consensus category classifications?

[Gem]

Originally Posted by TheImmortal

I sense that you may be baiting me with your opening line, "I think 'pure intuition' sets up an entirely unassailable position of righteousness", but I'm not taking the bait in the hope that it was not intended that way.

What a waste of breath.

Lord Jesus once said "Blessed are the pure of heart for they shall see (realize) God". Are you suggesting that this is not possible? Is it not a worthy aspiration ?

Because Jesus said it, my voice is irrelevant. That's the real message innit.

The discussion would seem to proceed more constructively if the focus shifted to HOW does one become established in "purity of heart" and thus discover what "resonates" most in the reported scriptures of all traditions.

All this about Jesus and scriptures indicates to me that 'resonates' does indeed pertain to the world views.

[Please Leave Me]

TheImmortal

794
Narrated Anas: Some people from the tribe of 'Ukl came to the Prophet and embraced Islam. The climate of Medina did not suit them, so the Prophet ordered them to go to the (herd of milch) camels of charity and to drink, their milk and urine (as a medicine). They did so, and after they had recovered from their ailment (became healthy) they turned renegades (reverted from Islam) and killed the shepherd of the camels and took the camels away. The Prophet sent (some people) in their pursuit and so they were (caught and) brought, and the Prophets ordered that their hands and legs should be cut off and that their eyes should be branded with heated pieces of iron, and that their cut hands and legs should not be cauterized, till they die.

from Quran : Only (the) recompense (for) those who wage war (against) Allah and His Messenger and strive in the earth spreading corruption (is) that they be killed or they be crucified or be cut off their hands and their feet of opposite sides or they be exiled from the land. That (is) for them disgrace in the world and for them in the Hereafter (is) a punishment great.


that is the punishment from Quran
for those who " spread corruption "
notice that those who spread corruption
can be applied to muslims and non-muslims
as some muslims are well capable of spreading corruption

this verse hold conditions of when such punishment is given
is when person wage war on allah and his messanger
and spread corruption on earth aka tyranny . oppression . etc etc

[TheImmortal]

Originally Posted by Shadow Of A Knight

TheImmortal

794
Narrated Anas: Some people from the tribe of 'Ukl came to the Prophet and embraced Islam. The climate of Medina did not suit them, so the Prophet ordered them to go to the (herd of milch) camels of charity and to drink, their milk and urine (as a medicine). They did so, and after they had recovered from their ailment (became healthy) they turned renegades (reverted from Islam) and killed the shepherd of the camels and took the camels away. The Prophet sent (some people) in their pursuit and so they were (caught and) brought, and the Prophets ordered that their hands and legs should be cut off and that their eyes should be branded with heated pieces of iron, and that their cut hands and legs should not be cauterized, till they die.

from Quran : Only (the) recompense (for) those who wage war (against) Allah and His Messenger and strive in the earth spreading corruption (is) that they be killed or they be crucified or be cut off their hands and their feet of opposite sides or they be exiled from the land. That (is) for them disgrace in the world and for them in the Hereafter (is) a punishment great.


that is the punishment from Quran
for those who " spread corruption "
notice that those who spread corruption
can be applied to muslims and non-muslims
as some muslims are well capable of spreading corruption

this verse hold conditions of when such punishment is given
is when person wage war on allah and his messanger
and spread corruption on earth aka tyranny . oppression . etc etc

Could you refer me to the Surah and verse where that passage is , as I want to read the passage in context. There is nothing like this in the teachings of Lord Jesus and it is giving me a completely different view of the Prophet of Islam.