Spiritual Forums

Home


Donate!


Articles


CHAT!


Shop


 
Welcome to Spiritual Forums!.

We created this community for people from all backgrounds to discuss Spiritual, Paranormal, Metaphysical, Philosophical, Supernatural, and Esoteric subjects. From Astral Projection to Zen, all topics are welcome. We hope you enjoy your visits.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest, which gives you limited access to most discussions and articles. By joining our free community you will be able to post messages, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload your own photos, and gain access to our Chat Rooms, Registration is fast, simple, and free, so please, join our community today! !

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, check our FAQs before contacting support. Please read our forum rules, since they are enforced by our volunteer staff. This will help you avoid any infractions and issues.

Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Religions & Faiths > Buddhism

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 02-04-2017, 08:51 AM
Ground Ground is offline
Suspended
Ascender
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 993
 
Wow ... this development initiated by Samana Johann reminds me of buddhist forums

No offense intended ... but its kind of a funny deja-vue

Individual Samana Johann seems to take a kind of fundamental buddhist stance. I prophesy that trying to debate his positions will necessarily just escalate the debate.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 02-04-2017, 09:02 AM
Gem Gem is offline
Master
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 22,073
  Gem's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samana Johann
From where would one with defilements know? So it's good to seek for advice from those before one, not next and not behind. And its natural that strong defilet mind takes goid for bad and bad for good. One should think always on this and prove the own state twice before, getting known one self first, before judge.

To come back to the topic at the same time, did Sky observe what has moved him to post this? Which kind of mind was responsible for this verbal kamma?

Indeed, this follows the general sentiment of the OP, which is the observation, and that mostly pertaining to ones own mind, though I suggest is wasn't intended to be used to challenge individuals who contribute to this thread. Rather, I thought it might be taken as a general facet of Buddhist practice which we each may self apply in practice. I think in Buddhist contexts, the living practice is important, and what one speaks of may assist us in a mutual noticing of deeper aspects of ourselves.
__________________
Radiate boundless love towards the entire world ~ Buddha
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 02-04-2017, 09:08 AM
Jeremy Bong Jeremy Bong is offline
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Malaysia
Posts: 2,817
  Jeremy Bong's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samana Johann
That what they claim nomally, yes, the defilements. When they face to be not able to win in agrumentation, they claim and beg to be worthy for kindness. But they aren't. So one is wise to look twice and don't listen to them.

Nowhere did the Buddha taught peopl:, if you find your self challenged, just claim kindness for you incapacaty."

Its good when defilements have angst, thats the only way one gets them under control, so do not support their ways to win a lossy battle.

Acting out of angst is by the way one reason for unskilful actions.

When all this suggestions do not help you to win over the leading defilements, when words of wise are rejected, who could help you out? Do you think you would be able to find out the way by your self? Observingwithdust in the eyes and not knowing where to look?

Someone just don't know what you're talking about and how they're on the same page. They think Buddhism is accepted or to accepting others who are defiled but what they introducing are beyond Buddhism teaching. So do we want to change discussion of other religions seriously on the topic of Buddhism. Outlook and viewpoint are totally different��. That's we talk of apple but oranges not say this way. So how to discuss on the same topic.


I'm the first one to view Gem thread but I don't respond to it. Let more view other than mine to say first. So eventually the same thing will come out. So you are right. But others don't telling me no judgement again otherwise no discussion or argument , they're all judgements.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 02-04-2017, 09:21 AM
Ground Ground is offline
Suspended
Ascender
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 993
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samana Johann
Sorry to interrupt this topic with off-topic.

Some days ago Atma had the thought: "Indeed, there was only one person worthy to lead deeper discussions on high level, indeed, there are less with knowledge and wisdom, able to teach those who are willing to be taught. I wonder where he might be a round, since as long as not death, such a person would not stopp what ever able to give."
Some days later Atma came accross a Esoteric forum, saw Ground and logged on. Actually to ask him, if he feels good, if his progress does develope further, if his health is fine. And to tell him, when ever he feels insired, to feel aleays invited on sangham.net to take a rest or to accumulate some merits to work on his "battle" without getting out of fuel.

As Ground knows. Two of a certain kind are mostly to heavy for defilement hugging places and cause quick much annoying.

Anyhow. It would be good if Ground makes use of the invitation.

Nice try ...

But see as sangham.net seems to be an exclusively buddhist forum it would be incompatible with the boundless merit spontaneously present in basic space. Why? Since at sangham.net one obviously would have to get rid of defilements in order to accumulate some merits. That would be a awkward environment for one who cannot find defilements and who's boundless merit spontaneously present in basic space cannot be amended with additional merit to be accumulated.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 02-04-2017, 09:30 AM
Gem Gem is offline
Master
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 22,073
  Gem's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samana Johann
That what they claim nomally, yes, the defilements. When they face to be not able to win in agrumentation, they claim and beg to be worthy for kindness. But they aren't. So one is wise to look twice and don't listen to them.

Nowhere did the Buddha taught peopl:, if you find your self challenged, just claim kindness for you incapacaty."

Its good when defilements have angst, thats the only way one gets them under control, so do not support their ways to win a lossy battle.

Acting out of angst is by the way one reason for unskilful actions.

When all this suggestions do not help you to win over the leading defilements, when words of wise are rejected, who could help you out? Do you think you would be able to find out the way by your self? Observingwithdust in the eyes and not knowing where to look?

I think it would be much more constructive and mutually beneficial, to consider any contributor to the thread with loving kindness and/or compassion. I suggest not to would be 'defilement', wouldn't it?

Though that said, as the OP or my second post suggested, this subject isn't about fixing or correcting malice or ill will, but merely being aware if and when such negativity arises in one's own mind. It isn't to then judge it, try to get rid on it etc, because this is only about noticing it should it happen to arise, and more generally, being more consistently aware of 'what's going on with you' (or in my case, me). I suggest this mindful presence by itself may resolve much of what we might otherwise be swept up in or even overwhelmed by.
__________________
Radiate boundless love towards the entire world ~ Buddha
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 02-04-2017, 09:37 AM
Ground Ground is offline
Suspended
Ascender
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 993
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samana Johann
So Ground is still overestimating his conditions... no problem, go on. Just when he migh have fallen out of the arupa sphere he would know where to rest. Thats the sphere where taught Bodhisatvas, when they are good, can "end" for a long long time. So just when wisdom like "enought" might arise one day or when lacking people able to challenge Ground further.
My conditions are yours in that there are different modes of consciousness and that underlying them is the ground of being, awareness beyond time and place.
Nevertheless enjoy your abiding as samana as I do enjoy my abiding as non-samana.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 02-04-2017, 09:46 AM
Jeremy Bong Jeremy Bong is offline
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Malaysia
Posts: 2,817
  Jeremy Bong's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samana Johann
Jeremy

It's good to share ones observation. On one had as a gift for otgers on the other hand, to get feedback on it. So its very needed to get involved act and face things by one self. If just sitting and obsering others... its like watching sports while getting fater and fater at the same time, never learn a skill but just judge.

Hey,

You're welcome on the forum. This Buddhism need a person can judge right on the Buddhism teaching. My response always come from what I've seen in the spiritual realm and my encounter or interaction with the spiritual world. But most or all of them may think that what I'm saying is not true. I never lie to them unless I saw wrongly maybe I will tell wrongly.

That's what you said is right but the other may not agree with your discrenment they don't using even common sense to judge certain things so how can they improve themselves fast enough to reach Buddha nature or Buddha mind?
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 02-04-2017, 10:23 AM
Jeremy Bong Jeremy Bong is offline
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Malaysia
Posts: 2,817
  Jeremy Bong's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samana Johann
Actually it's better to take the Buddha as a judge. As he told, the lowers refuge are ones own ideas, Jeremy. And he did not what you to reach something like Buddha nature or Buddha mind, but merely to get ride an find freedom from your buddhanature (zugangzureinsicht.org/html/lib/authors/thanissaro/freedomfrombuddhanature_en.html)

That's the fact, Samana. Gem first post here stressed not to judge but can a person not judge in our daily life? We choose that's we judge. We upgrade our living, we judge. To others , it's the same. So it's easy for us not to judge that's something not important to us, so we no need to choose or judge.

We judge, so we choose, so we learn, then we improve our discrenment. So how to improve ourselves to Buddha teaching if we not to judge at all? We choose what to learn not saying, we swallow all we can. Isn't it confusing our mind and reach a cliff and never turn back? That's a bit funny.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 02-04-2017, 10:41 AM
Jeremy Bong Jeremy Bong is offline
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Malaysia
Posts: 2,817
  Jeremy Bong's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samana Johann
As the Buddha taught in the famous Kalama Sutta (see "zugangzureinsicht.org/html/lib/authors/thanissaro/lostinquotation_en.html" lost in quotations): seeing by one self AND praised by the wise (e.g. the Buddha, Dhamma, Sangha). As it is said, a kalyanamitta, admirable friend is not only the half but the whole holly life.

"zugangzureinsicht.org/html/lib/authors/thanissaro/power_of_judgment_en.html" Power of judgement is also a good talk an that how to learn this skill.

Yes, I will look them up. I hope you can help them more at least to let them to understand more .
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 02-04-2017, 12:30 PM
naturesflow naturesflow is offline
Master
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: In my cocoon.
Posts: 6,653
  naturesflow's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gem
The main thing is that we have the tools of awareness and attention already. These aren't things anyone can teach anyone else because they are endemic to 'a conscious being'.

How this is actually applied to the living experience brings up the issue of what it is to meditate. Not 'how to meditate', but 'what it is to observe'. This is has to do with noticing - as opposed to being distracted.

This isn't anything to do with knowledge, but it is everything to do with wisdom. The difference between knowledge and wisdom is not easy to articulate, but we know people who learn everything but are yet quite shallow in wisdom. An analogy is, you can read and learn all there is to know about swimming, but that doesn't get you wet.

One should understand that this topic, because it is not a knowledge base, has no rights and no wrongs. Right and wrong only apply to abstractions, and do not apply to awareness, attention and that which is noticed.

Knowledge, right and wrong, is only used to establish positions, and it is plain to see the personal accusation and assertions that arise from the dynamic between right and wrong, as people assert respective positions. All that is pure distraction, as attention falls into imaginary others and loses touch with 'what is going on with oneself'.

I in no way suggest what's going on with you need be fixed or corrected - on the contrary, I only suggest being aware as opposed to being distracted. We easily notice that the results of distraction breeds disharmony, which is all too evident in this world, and more importantly, in creating one's own suffering.


Its good sound awareness. I guess I am listening aware of your awareness relating in this case, so its not to hard to reflect and be aware of what your conveying..

What you listen with, will speak of itself listening and of course some people don't like drowning in others words and so end up flapping their arms about trying to save themselves from doing that. Makes me wonder what they might actually "listen too" and convey, if they do feel themselves drowning and the words start to become quite muffled and unclear..I guess we will never really know in most of these threads about suffering and "right, wrong" issues because most don't want to drown in others words that don't fit their world ....hehehe
__________________
“God’s one and only voice are Silence.” ~ Herman Melville

Man has learned how to challenge both Nature and art to become the incitements to vice! His very cups he has delighted to engrave with libidinous subjects, and he takes pleasure in drinking from vessels of obscene form! Pliny the Elder
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 08:21 PM.


Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
(c) Spiritual Forums