Replies on Comments of Sai Baba

To complicate matters even more, not all Hindus even believe in the avatara concept. It's primarily a Vaishnava concept.

@ Vinayaka

Reply: Shankara is an incarnation of Lord Shiva. Veda says 'Shivascha Narayana and Brahmascha Narayana', It means Shiva is Vishnu and Brahma is Vishnua. So, the internal God in all the divine forms is same. Only external forms are different. For more clarity, please read the following.

devotee: Is it possible for God to come in Human form?

Reply of Shri Datta Swami:

How can one argue that the Lord cannot come down in the human form? If He is incapable of doing so, He cannot be omnipotent. One need not argue that though the Lord is capable, there is no necessity of such human form. You may not have that necessity. Are you the only human being on this whole earth? Have you taken the opinion of all the human beings to say like this? There are several devotees who belong to Nivrutti (path of liberation) and desire for the Lord in human form to see (Darsanam), to touch (Sparsanam), to hear the knowledge and clarify their doubts (Sambhashanam) and to live along with the Lord (Sahavasa) for achieving these three for a long time. The main purpose is preaching the divine knowledge and clarifying the doubts.

The statues or photos or energetic forms or space cannot preach the knowledge and that is against the universal observation (perception). Preaching of the knowledge by the human forms of the Lord like Krishna, Jesus etc is observed universally and accepted perception. Such universal observation is according to the rules of the nature. When something is possible through a simple way by following the rules of the nature, is it not foolish to do the same simple thing in the complicated way violating the rules of the nature?

When water is available in plenty from the tap, what is the necessity of producing water by forcing Hydrogen and Oxygen to react with the help of an electric arc? To show the production of the water by this reaction, this experiment can be performed once but not everytime whenever water is required. To show the superpower of the Lord a statue or a photo or the energetic form or even formless space may talk once.

But to preach the spiritual knowledge continuously, the Lord need not talk continuously through statues or photos or energetic forms or space. Some devotee might have experienced such superpower in some place and in sometime. Such experience is not supported by simultaneous universal observation. When you are seeing the moon in the sky, others are also observing the same moon simultaneously. This is required to authorize any experience. When this authorization is absent, your experience may be true or might have been due to some psychological disorder. The existence of such psychic experience is also observed in this world. Therefore we cannot isolate the possibility of these two cases in your experience

Therefore there is a necessity for the human form of the Lord and since the Lord is omnipotent, He is coming down in the human form. There cannot be any further argument on this point. I know you are worried that the Lord is modified into the human body and thus the unchangeable Lord has to be changed. Do not worry about this point, because the Lord is never modified into the human body. He only entered into the human body. The word ‘Asritam’ in the verse of Gita ‘Manushim tanumasritam’ means the entry of the Lord into the human body and not the modification of the Lord as a human body. Lord Krishna in Gita clarified this in the verse ‘Avyaktam Vyaktimapannam’.

[peteyzen]

I like that discourse Dattaswami. I agree with it too.

[Vinayaka]

Regarding Sankara, both Saivites and Vaishnavites claim him as their own, occasionally quite enthusiastically, and since he clarified and rejuvenated the Smarta Sampradaya, that seems logical.

As for Siva incarnating, that's merely a juxtoposition of the avatara concept onto another branch of Hinduism that doesn't have it. (Mix and match) In psychological terms, its called horizontal transfer, where you apply something from one area into another area. That's all fine too. I've heard it all before, but the fact remains that Saivism at its purest core does not accept the avatara concept. If you're not a Saivite, but a universalist or Vaishnavite, its all fine. I respect differences. Obviously for some people there is a religious need to feel God can manifest into a single individual. (The Saivite view is that Gurus, sages, saviours, avatars, etc. are wise realised souls)

In the end, I'm personally not into arguing these kinds of things. Most people, myself included, have reached their own conclusions over a lot of inner study and/or research. I know that about myself, (I'm 60 +, been in my sampradaya for 40 years, daily sadhana for all of it) so assume it's true of others, I will make an exception if the person I'm engaging with is obviously new to the whole process and philosophy, searching for answers, not searching for points of difference. Argument amongst Hindus doesn't do a lot for our own tolerance claims. Besides that, mystics don't argue. It drags the mind into intellectual realms not conducive to mystic states.

With that, I'll be out of this discussion.

It is a sin to differentiate between Shiva & Vishnu. If one cannot cross the barrier of sub-religions within the religion, how can one cross the barrier of the divine forms existing across the religions? In such case salvation is a distant dream.

devotee: Why God expressed in different forms in Hindu religion?

reply of Shri Datta Swami:

In the universe, God expressed Himself in single form in every religion. In Christianity, there is only one expressed form i.e. Jesus. In Islam, there is only one expressed form i.e. Allah or Mohammad. But in Hindu religion, there are different expressed forms of God like Vishnu, Shiva etc. Diversity in forms of God is only first point in Hindu religion. Next point is unity in all these forms that also exists in Hindu religion. People criticize Hindu religion showing only first point. Why don’t they see second point? Concept is not complete by the first point.

Now, question comes, “Why should there be diversity at all & make unnecessary effort to bring unity? Why Hinduism is not having single form of God as in Christianity or Islam?” All right. Let us assume that there is single form in Hindu religion & let us assume that Vishnu is that single form. Then, does this solve problem when you take entire world? Now, there are 3 forms of God i.e. Jesus, Allah or Mohammad & Vishnu. Now, if you take world as your system for study, is there single form of God for entire world? Even if we solve the problem at micro level i.e. Hinduism, but same problem is appearing at macro level i.e. world.

Solution at macro level is very important than at the micro level because in India, wars never took place between the followers of Vishnu and the followers of Shiva. But in the world, wars have taken place and are still taking place between the followers of Islam, Christianity, Hinduism etc. Problem at the micro level never disturbed peace. But, problem at macro level always disturbed world peace.

To use medicine on human beings at macro level, it is first tested in laboratory on micro system like rabbit. When medicine is proved in case of rabbit, it is administered to all human beings. Similarly, concept developed in unity of various forms of God in Hinduism should be taken totally by all religions in world.

Posted by: surya (disciple of Swamiji)
Universal Spirituality for World Peace

[abhishekved]

I have learnt that at the end of the day, the God you should pray to is the God that feels closest to you given the circumstances of your life. The stories behind each are just reference points that one uses to feel connected to them...

Someone who is playful might feel closer to Krishna while someone who believes in relentless pursuit of their goals might feel closer to Rama. Someone who is naturally kind to people might feel more attached to Sai Baba while someone who faces a lot of struggles in his personal life might seek the refuge of Ganesha. At the end of the day, there is only one Superior Being and as long as you are on your path to HIM/HER, it does not matter who's support you take in your journey.

This is my personal belief of course and people may disagree. :)

At the end of the day, there is only one Superior Being and as long as you are on your path to HIM/HER, it does not matter who's support you take in your journey.

Reply: That superior being comes in huaman form.

(Excerpt from message of Shri Datta Swami)

Lord comes in human form in every human generation to preach and give His direct presence. If the Lord comes in only one human generation, God becomes partial to that human generation because other human generations are not blessed with such opportunity. To see, to touch, to talk and to live with the human incarnation, He comes down as per the prayers of the devotees. The Lord comes to preach and so He will not enter the statues or animals or birds. Veda says ‘Na tasya pratima asti’’ which means that God will not enter the inert statues. Gita says ‘Manusheem tanu masritam’ which means that God enters the human body only because the main purpose is to preach the human beings.

Hanuman, the greatest…

Hanuman studied all the Vedas and Shastras. He studied nine grammars from Sun. Nobody in creation can be equal to Hanuman in this scholastic ability of scriptures. We do not have one-millionth knowledge of Hanuman. Hanuman always says ‘Dasoham’, which means that He is the humble servant of the Lord and never states ‘Soham’, which means that He is God.

The most important essence of the life history of Hanuman is meeting Rama, who was the then human incarnation of His generation. Hanuman was waiting to meet the human incarnation on the instruction of His mother and several sages. Hanuman has all the capacity to jump to the upper worlds and go to Brahma Loka or Vaikuntha or Kailasha to see Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva. In fact in the war, He went to Vaikuntha and brought down Garuda. Even in His childhood all the angels appeared before Him and gave boons. Then Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva, Indra etc. appeared. In such case why He was so anxious about the human form of the Lord? He has seen all the energetic forms of the Lord like Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva.

The psychology of Hanuman seems to be quite opposite to our psychology. We are always anxious to see the energetic form of God. In fact we feel that we have seen the original form of God when we see the energetic form of God. It is just like saying that when a person appears in a silk shirt, he is the original person. If the same person appears in a cotton shirt, he is not at all the original person. This means we treat the human form of the Lord as an ordinary human being and we treat the energetic form of God as the original form of God.

For the villagers of Brindavanam, Indra, who is the energetic form and a servant of God was God! But Krishna in human body was thought to be a human child. But Indra fell on the feet of Krishna and asked for apology. Indra could not recognize Krishna because he was seeing the external cotton shirt, which is lower than the silk shirt. He could not see the hidden God in the cotton shirt. In fact he was simply the silk shirt and thought the silk shirt itself i.e., himself as God.

Hanuman never cared for the energetic forms, which are simply angels. He respected the energetic forms of God like Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva but He did not worship them as per Valmiki Ramayana. The reason is that the energetic form is not convenient for worship.

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by dattaswami

At the end of the day, there is only one Superior Being
and as long as you are on your path to HIM/HER,
it does not matter who's support you take in your journey.

VERY wise words, dattaswami.

[knightofalbion]

Yes, Miss H. Wise words.

NB: It was Abhishekved who said that ... (Post 15)

thank you both of you.