Original Sin?

What is the full story behind this concept of "Original Sin"?

I remember being taught this as a child but I don't think I ever bought into it.
Just what is this, and how is this supposed to work in the Christian tradition?
Is this part of the other Abrahamic traditions as well?

[sky]

Originally Posted by ketzer

What is the full story behind this concept of "Original Sin"?

I remember being taught this as a child but I don't think I ever bought into it.
Just what is this, and how is this supposed to work in the Christian tradition?
Is this part of the other Abrahamic traditions as well?

Original sin stems from Adam & Eve being naughty in the garden of Eden. Jesus never mentioned it so I presume he didn't believe in it, who knows. It is definitely not mention in the NT....

[ThatMan]

Originally Posted by sky123

Original sin stems from Adam & Eve being naughty in the garden of Eden. Jesus never mentioned it so I presume he didn't believe in it, who knows. It is definitely not mention in the NT....

2 Corinthians 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

If you do some real research, you will find out that even the NT contains information about the original sin.By the way, look at this verse, it uses the word "corrupted", to make a comparison between what the serpent did and the simplicity of Jesus, so, in other words, the serpent corrupted the minds of man.In other words, the minds of Adam and Eve were perfect and pure but they were corrupted by the serpent, so God really made things right ( they were perfect ), but they became corrupted because of the serpent.

How do you corrupt the mind of a child? By teaching that child bad things, I am pretty sure that the serpent had a very long time at disposition to corrupt their minds, it's not something that you do in one meeting.

The serpent is a very powerful symbol used in the Bible, I don't think I found until now a good explanation, you know, sometimes it refers to the devil and its subjects ( Matthew 12:34 "O generation of vipers..", Matthew 23:33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers", John 3:14 "And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up" ) and sometimes to the things of God ( remember the rod of Moses ).

This would be an interesting discussion and we are at the subject of the original sin.

[sky]

Originally Posted by ThatMan

2 Corinthians 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

If you do some real research, you will find out that even the NT contains information about the original sin.By the way, look at this verse, it uses the word "corrupted", to make a comparison between what the serpent did and the simplicity of Jesus, so, in other words, the serpent corrupted the minds of man.In other words, the minds of Adam and Eve were perfect and pure but they were corrupted by the serpent, so God really made things right ( they were perfect ), but they became corrupted because of the serpent.

How do you corrupt the mind of a child? By teaching that child bad things, I am pretty sure that the serpent had a very long time at disposition to corrupt their minds, it's not something that you do in one meeting.

The serpent is a very powerful symbol used in the Bible, I don't think I found until now a good explanation, you know, sometimes it refers to the devil and its subjects ( Matthew 12:34 "O generation of vipers..", Matthew 23:33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers", John 3:14 "And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up" ) and sometimes to the things of God ( remember the rod of Moses ).

This would be an interesting discussion and we are at the subject of the original sin.

(1) Scripture plainly teaches that sin is not inherited. “[T]he son shall not bear the iniquity of the father” (Ezekiel 18:20); every person is responsible for his own conduct (Romans 14:12).

(2) Human sinfulness commences in that period of one’s life that is characterized as youth (Genesis 8:21; Jeremiah 3:25).

(3) A child must reach a certain level of maturity before he is able to choose between evil and good (Isaiah 7:15, 16).

(4) The qualities of little children are set forth as models for those who would aspire to enter the kingdom (Matthew 18:3; 19:14) and for those already in the church (1 Corinthians 14:20). Surely the Lord was not suggesting that we emulate little, totally corrupt sinners!

(5) The human spirit is not inherited from one’s parents; rather, it is given by God (Ecclesiastes 12:7; Hebrews 12:9). Hence, at birth it must be as pure as the source from whence it comes.

Clearly, babies are not born in sin.

[Dan_SF]

Originally Posted by ThatMan

so your minds

The question which i asked myself was "How can a mind eat ?"
The answer was: "It can not, the mind can only LEARN"

serpent

Serpent is time. Before time, adam and eve have asked God for anything, and they got it immediately.
Because adam and eve knew of nothing of the evil, they knew only of Good and they could get only that.

Apple/Fruit

Is not a fruit at all. Because mind can not eat, but learn. The fruit was called "of Good and evil".

Adam and Eve's minds were pure. But then they somehow entered the time, and Learned to separate Good and Bad by themselves and without God.
(or did they separated Good and Bad by themselves and so entered the time ?)

Before entering the time, everything was perfect, because God has separated the Light from the Darkness (or Good from the Bad), and so Darkness could not enter their minds.

So the 'Evil' thoughts is an addition which they have taught themselves, and this is not of God.

[Morpheus]

Original sin involves the issue of time... and the situation of this evolved animal/mammal.

It is said that both Adam and Eve "shone", as Jesus did on the mount of Transfiguration, and that the "Paradise of God", was a spiritual and angelic situation.

See Daniel 12:3, and Revelation 12:4.

The greater and actual reality and situation is the Spirit, and the angelic, involving eternity, or the timeless.

Involving the "Serpent", in Revelation the devil is recognized as "that old dragon", and I believe is described as red, (blood).
Also, "The Reptilian Brain" is something taught in educational curriculum today.

Originally Posted by Morpheus

Original sin involves the issue of time... and the situation of this evolved animal/mammal.

It is said that both Adam and Eve "shone", as Jesus did on the mount of Transfiguration, and that the "Paradise of God", was a spiritual and angelic situation.

See Daniel 12:3, and Revelation 12:4.

The greater and actual reality and situation is the Spirit, and the angelic, involving eternity, or the timeless.

Yes, the time (spacetime) we experience can be seen as an illusion, created along with everything else within the conscious observer as they "observe" the quantum field and manifest reality within themselves. This is understood and there is even an equation for it (which BTW does come on T Shirts). Yet many physicist will not agree that time is "not real" in general. Time is a difficult concept to do away with as any sort of change has to occur against a backdrop of some kind. If there is no spacetime or matter, then there is no change, at least non that our human minds can comprehend. We cannot progress toward anything as progression is change. Of course progression itself presents a quandary as well, as against the backdrop of eternity, wherever we are progressing, no matter how slowly, we should be there by now. Perpetual change (against the backdrop of some form of time) without really progressing toward anything, does seem to work, yet is not all that satisfying to think about. Is it possible, we are really just like Sisyphus, eternally pushing a boulder up the hill and watching it roll back down again? I hope not, but it is the only logically consistent theory I have so far. This is a dead end in this thought maze I have found myself at enough that I suspect there is no way out of this particular maze in my current form. Anyway, although spacetime can be seen as an illusion, I would not say that means that it is not real. Perhaps any reality we can experience can be seen as an illusion we create within, and therefore all are as real as any other.

Originally Posted by sky123

Original sin stems from Adam & Eve being naughty in the garden of Eden. Jesus never mentioned it so I presume he didn't believe in it, who knows. It is definitely not mention in the NT....

Yes, I recall it being something passed on down from Adam and Eve. Sort of like a sin they committed (biting the apple I assumed) that gets inherited by all of their progeny (which biblically speaking is everyone). I assume this is why Jesus was not conceived by human sex but put in the womb by God. Otherwise he would have inherited original sin sort of like a 24th chromosome, and would not have been without sin. But some Christians also hold that Mary was without sin, which seems to lead to all sorts of explanations as well.
How much of this do you doctrinal Christians hold to? And more importantly, how important do you see this to the message and meaning to the life of Jesus?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immacu...f_personal_sin

[davidmartin]

i see it very simple. the concept of 'original sin' we know and love in it's full calvinist expression is not found in scripture. by taking certain verses together you can try to prove it. so long as others are ignored, i think it's over emphasised so much it actually loses it's value as a teaching and can actually corrupt things, in an odd way

Originally Posted by davidmartin

i see it very simple. the concept of 'original sin' we know and love in it's full calvinist expression is not found in scripture. by taking certain verses together you can try to prove it. so long as others are ignored, i think it's over emphasised so much it actually loses it's value as a teaching and can actually corrupt things, in an odd way

Corrupting the "word of God" by taking certain verses together to try to prove something that is not so seems to me to be a pretty good definition of what one hears preached by modern right wing evangelicals (as well as ancient roman ones I suppose).... or at least it was until I stopped bothering to listen to them.

Anyway, I don't believe in this concept of original sin myself, but I am curious as to why it was created in the first place. What did the church hope to gain from creating such a doctrine? To what advantage did they use it? Is it really as simple as locking all human beings to a dependency on the church to avoid damnation from it?

You are condemned to hell because of original sin. Only Christ can save you from this so you better get right with him. Only we can get you right with Christ. So you better pony up and fly right or your headed for hell.

Even if that is the case, there is usually some other theological justification that such an extortion would hide behind. Does anybody know that that is? Or is it really just as simple as the sins of the father are the sins of the son and so on down the line to me.