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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > General Beliefs

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  #51  
Old 12-11-2017, 12:55 AM
Gem Gem is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonglow
Hi Gem,

Can agree to each their own.

It what keeps life interesting for me. How boring it would be if we all thought the same.

I think if more were willing to agree to disagree and get on with it, perhaps all the dust kicked up would settle down a bit.

In my case, I'm not involved in agrees and disagrees apart from issues of consent. The way I see it is, if the mind is moving to agree or disagree and be right or wrong, then it's trying to draw conclusions rather than look more deeply into it, and it's important for people to look deeply and critically into their beliefs - not as rationale, but into the whole structure of taking a thought, making a conclusion, and taking-it-to-be-true - especially when taken in blind faith. A belief set in reason is a matter of individual discernment, and I can only advocate discerning ability. I believe things, but I know they are not true; it's merely the best I have to go on, it seems quite reasonable, so I do. At some stage the errors of it become apparent so it transforms or develops accordingly, but it will never actually become true. This is because the beliefs are an individual matter, and they are not universal, and spirituality as far as I am concerned regards only universals, such as this awareness we both know, for example.
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  #52  
Old 12-11-2017, 05:16 AM
Lorelyen Lorelyen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blossomingtree
I don't agree with this:

a) Lumping all religions into one type of modus operandi
b) Ascribing negative and limiting repercussions to people of all faiths in religions across the world
c) Not recognizing the reality and greys of a situation - who are you or I to say what works best for each person and what door will lead them to which path?

I'm not going to dispute or argue against your views. It's a public forum. I gave mine. You're entitled to yours. I'm not going to press any points. I see a few religions in the making in these forum sections and it is up to the participants whether they follow them or not.

Quote:
Often posts like these - including the huge trend of anti-guru "you don't have to do a thing and you are enlightened already" posts on this forum - have another implicit baseline - that is, that the poster's view and "spiritual religion" (of no religion or no path or no teacher) is the superior one.

i.e. they cannot posit inferiority of a sect/religion without trying to imply that their "freewheeling" "free thinking" "unguided" path is the better - i.e a newer better mousetrap or religion.

You say that things could happen again. Yes they could, and yes they do. This is life. All patterns re-engage and re-emerge, including in this latest fad of "you don't have to do a thing or follow anyone else but my own thoughts" thing.

Speaking to some traditions I am familiar with e.g. Buddhism, Sufism, some Christians, there is wide and immense range of freedom of thought so again, please do not cast all your stones in one direction, when you have no realistic understanding or experience of how they actually operate.

BT
Yup, I'm familiar with Christianity, Shinto, Dahomeyan (in the Caribbean both petwo(pedro) and rada) Yoruba. To a lesser extent the other Abrahamic faiths. It is rather fatuous to claim that I have no understanding or experience of how religions operate.

Case closed.
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  #53  
Old 12-11-2017, 05:37 AM
Shivani Devi Shivani Devi is offline
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I am going to cross-reference three threads here, including this one.

What we see, what is presented to us on the spiritual/religious level, is only a 'mental smorgasbord' of opinions, beliefs and ideas.

Now, when you go to a restaurant and 'smorgasbord' is on offer, you only take what you want and how much you want...bypassing all of the other dishes you find personally distasteful...leaving those dishes for others who may like them.

Do you go up to the chef and say "why did you make that for, you idiot? I don't like that...remove it from my sight, immediately!" yeah, you'd be kicked out of the establishment quick smart.

However, when there is no fear of such repercussion, when anonymity is involved, humans will complain long and loud when what they choose to see or hear doesn't meet up with their expectations, when they go into it with bias in the first place, knowing what they will 'accept' and what they will 'not accept' but they forcibly subject themselves to those things they 'don't accept' ONLY so they can whine long and loud about it to whoever will listen to them.

You only have to go on Youtube, on Social Media...on any type of Internet medium to see all of the trolls being let out of their cages...and if you don't agree that 'Aliens built Pyramids' why click on the link for...eh? ehhh?

http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/sh...1&postcount=20

...and so, you also get those, who despite the fact you are ignoring them to oblivion and back because they are full of fear, hate and like to just attack you for the sake of it...and even though you have them on 'ignore'...they will keep on polluting threads with rubbish...and the more you stay on topic and try to keep the flow of the thread moving along, the more they'll try and shaft it, railroad it...and they cannot SEE they are simply wasting their time and energy because I laugh in their face...yet still, they continue to bash their heads against a brick wall...hoping it will make some difference, when they have a snowflake's chance in Hades with me due to their over-emotional outpourings at the total expense of ALL logic.

http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/sh...=118068&page=7

End my story.
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  #54  
Old 12-11-2017, 02:59 PM
Moonglow Moonglow is offline
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Hello,

I realized in starting this thread was entering into what some may hold as sacred ground. It is personal to the individual that may have, hold, and found to be true for him/her self. So, feel to tread softly and with this awareness.

Now, to be clear I speak for myself and according to my outlokk. I respect that there are other ways, beliefs, and (dare say), knowings out there.

It is a big world and even larger universe out there. I don't know for others, only for myself.

I do see similarities in them and in certain ways both seem to be pointing at the same essence in life. Find a curiosity in this, an interest which brings a wondering why it is chosen by some individuals or groups to cause conflicts.

I have had conflicts with religion and spiritual matters and at times find these will still arise with in myself. Find it is not so much others, unless being oppressive or persistent that his/her way is the only way. It is with in myself.
Sometimes what may seem to irritate indicates a place that needs attention and healing, as I see it. Sometimes it is recognizing it is simply not for me.

It has been told to me that everything with in thinking stems from love or fear.
Which took some time to take this in. First reaction was, great more cliches, but it has stuck in my mind and find in essence this hold truth, for me.

Why, does someone judge another? Why does someone feel unworthy? Why be divided? Can ask a lot of questions, but if not found with in myself, then seem to go around in circles. At other times, if not ask how can I understand where another is coming from or how to intergrated what has been given.

I enjoy different view points, different beliefs, different appearances. They are the reflections of being human and of the light and shadows that create the images experienced. Some even give me further awareness.

If it works for the individual, great. This does not mean it may work for all, IMO

Sharing further thoughts on this and appreciate those who have shared in his/her thoughts and insights.
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  #55  
Old 12-11-2017, 04:37 PM
Kioma Kioma is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonglow
...It has been told to me that everything with in thinking stems from love or fear.
Which took some time to take this in. First reaction was, great more cliches, but it has stuck in my mind and find in essence this hold truth, for me.

Why, does someone judge another? Why does someone feel unworthy? Why be divided? Can ask a lot of questions, but if not found with in myself, then seem to go around in circles. At other times, if not ask how can I understand where another is coming from or how to intergrated what has been given...
The answer to me is simple, because it is simple to observe. Generally, it is all about self-interest. This is what generates all the drama, and many of the feelings of 'love/hate'. This is what my last post was about, and what transcendence is all about, IMO.

It is a paradox that we must transcend self through self, but fortunately we are not alone, if we choose not to be. To LOOK around and SEE that what is inside us is also all around us, that is the opening of the third eye, what 'openness' is all about, IMO.

To me, the purpose of life is to generate awareness. That sounds very sterile, compared to the reality, but that awareness is a very complex and powerful force. It is, at the top level, the very foundation of the omniverse, IME.

The division is indeed manufactured out of fear and drama. I am nobodies enemy, but some see me as an enemy. In reality, we are all one.

.
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  #56  
Old 12-11-2017, 08:23 PM
Moonglow Moonglow is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kioma
The answer to me is simple, because it is simple to observe. Generally, it is all about self-interest. This is what generates all the drama, and many of the feelings of 'love/hate'. This is what my last post was about, and what transcendence is all about, IMO.

It is a paradox that we must transcend self through self, but fortunately we are not alone, if we choose not to be. To LOOK around and SEE that what is inside us is also all around us, that is the opening of the third eye, what 'openness' is all about, IMO.

To me, the purpose of life is to generate awareness. That sounds very sterile, compared to the reality, but that awareness is a very complex and powerful force. It is, at the top level, the very foundation of the omniverse, IME.

The division is indeed manufactured out of fear and drama. I am nobodies enemy, but some see me as an enemy. In reality, we are all one.

.

Thank you

It brings some reflections I have on this.

Yes, find that life itself is not a solo act and one thing can and does affect another.

Thoughts seem to create the perception of things. The how, why, what, and so forth. Yet, just observing find nature/life goes on and does it thing. See the interactions.

Love and fear seem to run on a scale and one can affect the other.
One may protect oneself for love of life.
One may worry about a loved one for fear of loss.
A couple examples that come to mind.
This also for me comes in how it is thought to be and my thoughts affect how I may perceive something. Another's thoughts may influence this as well.

So yeah, seems to come back to self.

However one may find connections seem alright by me. It is more in how one may act out or project the thoughts that seem to create a sense of unity or division. If one chooses to do so.

To become aware of my thoughts and what is just occurring around me can be a bit tricky if overthought about.lol
This is what comes to mind. It is what I think it is at present, for me, but not all it is.
Suppose this is what is transcended through the self.
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  #57  
Old 12-11-2017, 10:25 PM
Kioma Kioma is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonglow
...To become aware of my thoughts and what is just occurring around me can be a bit tricky if overthought about.lol
This is what comes to mind. It is what I think it is at present, for me, but not all it is.
Suppose this is what is transcended through the self.
Absolutely. View varies by perspective, and of course all thought is conceptual, not literal. This is both a limitation and a liberation - It's limiting in that we can never completely know anything, but liberating in that we can think beyond what we do know. This is how transcendence is possible.

That may be overthought, but I don't think so. I think it is appropriate in the context of the discussion. If you want to talk about the weather, we can do that too.

.
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  #58  
Old 13-11-2017, 02:14 AM
Moonglow Moonglow is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kioma
Absolutely. View varies by perspective, and of course all thought is conceptual, not literal. This is both a limitation and a liberation - It's limiting in that we can never completely know anything, but liberating in that we can think beyond what we do know. This is how transcendence is possible.

That may be overthought, but I don't think so. I think it is appropriate in the context of the discussion. If you want to talk about the weather, we can do that too.

.

Lol, Kioma. Thank you for bringing lightness to the discussion.
For when I say overthinking, mean making it a burden of sorts.

Which brings the mind to these thoughts.
To allow the mind to wander in the wonder and possibilities.
If humans never did this, then what would we have, where would we be?
All this would hold very little meaning and what it brings would echo hollow, IMO.

Not knowing can also be liberating in the sense that I don't have to pressure myself to know, but can still enjoy what life may bring.

Is a strangers' smile less bright then that of a friend? Just playing with a thought here.

I enjoy the discussions here and get great insight and view points that help me clear the air a bit in me.

The weather has its stories to tell as well.
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  #59  
Old 13-11-2017, 02:28 AM
Moonglow Moonglow is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gem
In my case, I'm not involved in agrees and disagrees apart from issues of consent. The way I see it is, if the mind is moving to agree or disagree and be right or wrong, then it's trying to draw conclusions rather than look more deeply into it, and it's important for people to look deeply and critically into their beliefs - not as rationale, but into the whole structure of taking a thought, making a conclusion, and taking-it-to-be-true - especially when taken in blind faith. A belief set in reason is a matter of individual discernment, and I can only advocate discerning ability. I believe things, but I know they are not true; it's merely the best I have to go on, it seems quite reasonable, so I do. At some stage the errors of it become apparent so it transforms or develops accordingly, but it will never actually become true. This is because the beliefs are an individual matter, and they are not universal, and spirituality as far as I am concerned regards only universals, such as this awareness we both know, for example.


I think at times that is best that I can do go on what I know at present and feel to do.

Yes, it is discerning one thing from another. Beliefs for me have and do fluctuate and change, but some things tend to stick around longer then others. Some things are learned through trial and error.

Yes, do find there are Universal ways one can become aware.

It is also, for me, what I find trust in. This can take some time to develop.

As far as agreeing and disagreeing, can understand the position that it is making a conclusion of sorts. I also see it as it being whether it makes sense to me or resonates with me at present. Depending how I understand it at the present.
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  #60  
Old 13-11-2017, 02:44 PM
Kioma Kioma is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonglow
Lol, Kioma. Thank you for bringing lightness to the discussion.
For when I say overthinking, mean making it a burden of sorts.

Which brings the mind to these thoughts.
To allow the mind to wander in the wonder and possibilities.
If humans never did this, then what would we have, where would we be?
All this would hold very little meaning and what it brings would echo hollow, IMO.

Not knowing can also be liberating in the sense that I don't have to pressure myself to know, but can still enjoy what life may bring.

Is a strangers' smile less bright then that of a friend? Just playing with a thought here.

I enjoy the discussions here and get great insight and view points that help me clear the air a bit in me.

The weather has its stories to tell as well.
Again, absolutely agree. And thank you for bringing your wonderful insights and participation to the forum. We need more like you.

And honestly what my ruminations constantly bring to my mind is the scope of what I don't know, for even in the 'order' I 'see' is an infinitude of uncertainty, precarious adventure, and unknown potential, for my every observation also tells me that one thing that can be expected is the unexpected. God is much smarter and much bigger than I am. I am but a tiny drop in a vast cosmic ocean. All I can do is be open to the possibilities as this life unfolds, always seeking my highest expression.


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