Pragmatic Buddhism

[blossomingtree]

Originally Posted by Gem

The first 'teacher' in meditation is almost always pain.

Quite the generalization!

If I was to guess, I would say what people usually learn when they first sit down to do formal sitting meditation, is how busy their minds are and how hard it is to stay focused on e.g. the breath, or just sitting without distraction.

Pain is a common experience in formal, long sits (for example, what I did not mention above is that even though people were given an option to stand at times, I have gone without for long periods and sustained a lot of pleasure even during long sits - that said, I never expect any particular way during a meditation session and pain or happiness is not really the point - everything is teaching us, as Ajahn Chah says, and depending on one's practice, everyone has the ingredients necessary to do the practice.

I do remember how the thought "ring the @# bell" when I sat my very first retreat way back when, but those thoughts no longer even arise now.

BT

[sky]

Originally Posted by blossomingtree

Quite the generalization!

If I was to guess, I would say what people usually learn when they first sit down to do formal sitting meditation, is how busy their minds are and how hard it is to stay focused on e.g. the breath, or just sitting without distraction.

Pain is a common experience in formal, long sits (for example, what I did not mention above is that even though people were given an option to stand at times, I have gone without for long periods and sustained a lot of pleasure even during long sits - that said, I never expect any particular way during a meditation session and pain or happiness is not really the point - everything is teaching us, as Ajahn Chah says, and depending on one's practice, everyone has the ingredients necessary to do the practice.

I do remember how the thought "ring the @# bell" when I sat my very first retreat way back when, but those thoughts no longer even arise now.

BT

I expect........ from meditating and what I recieve is a bonus

[blossomingtree]

sky123

BT

[sky]

[quote=blossomingtree]Who actually says this, I wonder, sky123?

BT[/QUOTE


Well it definitely wasn't me thats why I asked Cats:

[Gem]

Originally Posted by sky123

For me it's quality rather than quantity. I do a lot of standing/walking meditation, I do sometimes sit but never set times, it happens when it happens and finishes whenever I go with the flow, never forcing or planning only if I attend group meditations.

Yea, you'd probably have to do more determined sitting to experience any significant discomfort. The 'with the flow approach' would be like 'ok its over' as soon as unpleasant sensations affect the agitations.

[sky]

Originally Posted by Gem

Yea, you'd probably have to do more determined sitting to experience any significant discomfort. The 'with the flow approach' would be like 'ok its over' as soon as unpleasant sensations affect the agitations.

No I don't have to do a more determined sitting Gem, I go with what my body feels it needs, Going with the flow doesn't mean I give up when unpleasant sensations arise, I spend hours doing Qigong and Tai Chi and sometimes it can cause discomfort but not pain. Some set clocks/timers to determine how long they meditate for but I go with the flow and start and finish when I feel the time is right unless I am in a group session then I do whatever the Monk/Nun has deemed the correct time. When I teach it's usually an hour or so, discomfort or not, but pain is not something I do

Originally Posted by sky123

I wonder who decided ' pain is a great teacher '

I think the idea is that when you somehow observe pain as different from suffering you can begin to unravel the 4 noble truths.
When I asked why it had to hurt so much my meditation teacher asked me if I could try to see the physical pain as a fabrication of my mind. If it was I should try to sit with it.

On most occasions though I thought it was just a manifestation of this old and stiff body interrupting circulation or pressing on a nerve or something so I move a little for short term release.

With Love
Eelco

Originally Posted by sky123

Found some goods books from your link, thanks. Now I have to work out how to put them on my Kindle

There's a free ebook program called calibre that can convert some e-book format's so they are fit for kindle, or other e-readers..

It will not always work with pdf files. That depends if the book is made up of pages of pictures or that they were converted to text.

May be worth a shot though.

With Love
Eelco

Originally Posted by blossomingtree

I do remember how the thought "ring the @# bell" when I sat my very first retreat way back when, but those thoughts no longer even arise now.

BT

Yeah what amazes me about the "ring the @# bell" experience. It seems to build and build and build. And then when the bell rings there's a release and I can go on sitting no problems, whilst before the bell the tension becomes almost overwhelming.

Mind as the forerunner of all things right..

With Love
Eelco

[Gem]

Originally Posted by sky123

No I don't have to do a more determined sitting Gem, I go with what my body feels it needs, Going with the flow doesn't mean I give up when unpleasant sensations arise, I spend hours doing Qigong and Tai Chi and sometimes it can cause discomfort but not pain. Some set clocks/timers to determine how long they meditate for but I go with the flow and start and finish when I feel the time is right unless I am in a group session then I do whatever the Monk/Nun has deemed the correct time. When I teach it's usually an hour or so, discomfort or not, but pain is not something I do

I didn't say you have to do determined sitting - I said "you'd probably have to do more determined sitting to experience any significant discomfort".