Will I say the same things again?

[sky]

Originally Posted by Gem

According to how I was instructed, Buddhism consists of the philosophy and the practice. For example, taking refuge isn't just lip-service; it is actually meant and really applied in life. Similarly, vows to morality are not empty words. They are meant and aspired to.

Mybe thats why you seem to have a strange way of looking at Buddhism Gem, you say you were ' instructed '. I don't believe Buddha instructed anybody, but advised. Some branches/schools do instruct and if you don't follow the instructions then you are deemed to be not following Buddhism. Instructions and advice in my understanding are very different.

[sky]

Originally Posted by Eelco

Never mind....

With Love
Eelco

I do mind I just came back to join in your post and you've removed it.... Never mind.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Eelco

There is a difference between instruction and how to practice.
You have said so yourself on occasion when dismissing the words of teachers as not conducive to practice.


You are free to embody Buddhism any which way you like, I find it funny though you continue to "enforce" your idea of Buddhism into a semi-open discussion forum and call everything not in line with that viewnot Buddhism.



Whatever begs the question you posed in your OP has a multitude of answers. In my fabrications of truth, the point you try to make repeatedly is to narrow to encompass all that Buddhism can be to people.


With Love
Eelco

In the school I associate with, emails among the sangha are conventionally ended, 'With Metta,' and metta is truly the impetus of the message. The message and the sign off are congruent because what is said is also practiced.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by sky123

Mybe thats why you seem to have a strange way of looking at Buddhism Gem

I could say the same of you with the exact same merit (that is, none).

you say you were ' instructed '.

That's because I went on lengthy meditation retreats to learn the meditation and followed the teacher's instructions. Though, I cant remember a single instruction which was not explained in detail.

I don't believe Buddha instructed anybody.

there are ample records of Buddha teaching meditation.

but advised.

That too, as a student progresses in their practice their teachers could guide and advise on any obstacle they come across.

Some branches/schools do instruct

Pretty much all schools provide meditation instruction. Many expect students to obey 'because buddha said', and others give elaborate explanations for why the practice is the way it is. I attended the latter kind which was for people who wanted to learn the meditation and practice it day in day out. That how my views on Buddhism arose from continuous practice in the traditional ashram setting.

and if you don't follow the instructions then you are deemed to be not following Buddhism. Instructions and advice in my understanding are very different.

In what way?

I'm sorry sky123,
I felt suddenly compelled not to engage in yet again a conversation about Buddhism where Gem and I don't agree.


We've been there and done that. It's why I removed it.
It reappeared however so feel free to respond.


@Gem, I'm unsure of why you share the with metta considerations.
But if it pleases you you may infer my message endings in much the same way..


With Love
Eelco

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Eelco

I'm sorry sky123,
I felt suddenly compelled not to engage in yet again a conversation about Buddhism where Gem and I don't agree.


We've been there and done that. It's why I removed it.
It reappeared however so feel free to respond.


@Gem, I'm unsure of why you share the with metta considerations.
But if it pleases you you may infer my message endings in much the same way..


With Love
Eelco

All this means is the saying 'love' is a serious thing to say because it has no meaning unless its true. Not being one to uphold ideals, I don't have a notion of perfect congruence, but this thing with the truth is a trust issue, and people are not dull; they are sharp, perceptive and very alert to any small incongruency. In the natural flow of honesty congruency is a flow where words, tones, inflections are animated by facial expression and movement of the body. Incongruency appears when one aspect of that doesn't seem fit the others. It's important because saying 'love' and not being taken as sincere is quite a chasm in the bridge of trust, and it's very important that 'love' is believed by someone when it is said.

[sky]

Originally Posted by Eelco

I'm sorry sky123,
I felt suddenly compelled not to engage in yet again a conversation about Buddhism where Gem and I don't agree.


We've been there and done that. It's why I removed it.
It reappeared however so feel free to respond.


@Gem, I'm unsure of why you share the with metta considerations.
But if it pleases you you may infer my message endings in much the same way..


With Love
Eelco

'There is a difference between instruction and how to practice.'

This part is interesting as I personally have been instructed to practise Buddhism in a certain way which I found to be an insult to Buddha's teachings, instructed with Metta so they said
I don't believe Buddha instructed as I mentioned to Gem previously but rather advised. If I had folowed the instruction given in the Sangha I attended then I most certainly wouldn't have been practicing ' Metta ' .
Would I have been practising Buddhism..... in their eyes yes I would but not according to Buddha's teachings.

Originally Posted by Gem

It's important because saying 'love' and not being taken as sincere is quite a chasm in the bridge of trust, and it's very important that 'love' is believed by someone when it is said.

Well, I'll shower my love around where ever I wish.
Whether one receives it or not does not diminish the love I feel what so ever.


The importance of the important just isn't all that important to me.


With Love
Eelco

Originally Posted by sky123

'There is a difference between instruction and how to practice.'

This part is interesting as I personally have been instructed to practise Buddhism in a certain way which I found to be an insult to Buddha's teachings, instructed with Metta so they said
I don't believe Buddha instructed as I mentioned to Gem previously but rather advised. If I had folowed the instruction given in the Sangha I attended then I most certainly wouldn't have been practicing ' Metta ' .
Would I have been practising Buddhism..... in their eyes yes I would but not according to Buddha's teachings.

Good for you.
I agree that the way the Buddha phrased his suggestions to overcome suffering and lamentation can be understood in multiple ways. Which accounts for the differences in the appearance of practice.


In the end I feel it comes down to how one perceives his or her own growth towards the goal of reaching the end of samsara. If my understanding diminishes the perceived suffering of myself and those around me due to practices some call blasphemy or at least un-Buddhist so be it.


With Love
Eelco

[Gem]

Originally Posted by sky123

'There is a difference between instruction and how to practice.'

This part is interesting as I personally have been instructed to practise Buddhism in a certain way which I found to be an insult to Buddha's teachings, instructed with Metta so they said
I don't believe Buddha instructed as I mentioned to Gem previously but rather advised. If I had folowed the instruction given in the Sangha I attended then I most certainly wouldn't have been practicing ' Metta ' .
Would I have been practising Buddhism..... in their eyes yes I would but not according to Buddha's teachings.

I don't regard it as according to Buddha's teachings but according to something universally true of the heart. The notion of enlightenment is universal in the sense that truth of nature is true of all beings, making refuge deeply connected to life abiding in its presence. In the definition of 'Buddha' to mean the quality of enlightenment, taking refuge, accepting whatever's true in the universal sense because it is true of you - (and equally true of everyone else).