Is the pre-birth soul/life plan real?

[Altair]

Originally Posted by janielee

Sorry if I have offended you, but I see this conversation is not going anywhere. You have consistently said that I am doing this or that, and believe this or that, and I have told you I have not many times, and here it arises again. I am not avoiding anything - I posted to speak about specific points, and have done so.

Right.. this isn't going anywhere. I see, a lot of discussions here on SF.. sometimes I participate, others times not.. and people don't just disagree but nitpick, and straw man over and over again. I honestly think most of this wouldn't be there at all if we all talked about it in person, when facial cues tell us more, and we all share a drink. This form of communication isn't ingrained into our being, it's just words on a page.. but words can be interpreted in many ways..

Originally Posted by janielee

OOB experiences aren't spiritual in my definition. And as to the "Mind of God" presumably one would have to know God first to even speak of such things (for or against) JL

It depends on what we see as 'spiritual'. I'd say our subtle/astral body isn't the 'spirit', as it's a 'form' and therefore changing, so strictly speaking, I could view it as not spiritual. Alternatively we could state everything is 'ensouled' which would make everything already spiritual. It's a question of perception, and of dualism/pantheism/panentheism..

Originally Posted by Altair

Right.. this isn't going anywhere. I see, a lot of discussions here on SF.. sometimes I participate, others times not.. and people don't just disagree but nitpick, and straw man over and over again. I honestly think most of this wouldn't be there at all if we all talked about it in person, when facial cues tell us more, and we all share a drink. This form of communication isn't ingrained into our being, it's just words on a page.. but words can be interpreted in many ways..

True.

JL

[Spiritual_Light]

Back to the topic...

Does anyone here know where this pre-birth soul plan/contract thing started from?

I'm trying to figure out if it's origins come from NDE based experiences or mediums who are in communication with the other side, as a lot of people are saying similar things. But are they saying it because it has become an adopted belief, or are there other views/perspectives that other mediums have on this that say something else as well?

I'm trying to learn in particular why a lot of mediums have all adopted this as almost fact. Why so many say things like "well that person is suffering because they chose to do that in their life contract..."

I think to me, the way it just sort of said as a simple matter of fact, makes this very emotionally cold and arrogant. I have no agenda against mediumship, but I just find there to be a slight level of arrogance over this issue whenever I see it discussed. It might well be true, but why are some so insensitive about it when telling someone their suffering is because they chose it?

For me personally, on my own spiritual journey, it has made me question myself but not always in a good way. I always try to be a good person, and I will admit I am not perfect. I have some health issues which have affected me quite profoundly that occurred spontaneously in my life and I have been dealing with it for the better part of a decade. Now, when I have ever discussed this with spiritual minded people previously or read books about spirituality, I am led to believe my suffering is my own choosing, or it is karmic in some sense. It almost implies I might have been a bad person serving my karmic lesson, or I chose this lesson in a soul contract because I wanted to learn a lesson - because maybe I was a bad person previously... This sort of thing makes you question yourself, and I was even advised to search for all the bad things I might have done wrong in my life to try and figure it out!

So I'm sort of trying to test and challenge these things I have learnt, to try and figure out what is truth and what is people just making stuff up.

My family had a clairvoyant reading twice in 2012 and 2013. I wasn't there, but the clairvoyant told my family lots of things about me and my illness - a lot of which hadnt happened at the time and later came true. We still have a few bits written down that haven't happened yet, but I think the lack of progress has made me do a lot of searching for answers and made me question things. He never mentioned anything about karmic lessons or soul contracts, he just told my family a list of things as he did the reading - he didn't ask any questions- quite amazing really.

[Altair]

Originally Posted by Spiritual_Light

Back to the topic...

Does anyone here know where this pre-birth soul plan/contract thing started from?

I'm trying to figure out if it's origins come from NDE based experiences or mediums who are in communication with the other side, as a lot of people are saying similar things. But are they saying it because it has become an adopted belief, or are there other views/perspectives that other mediums have on this that say something else as well?

I'm trying to learn in particular why a lot of mediums have all adopted this as almost fact. Why so many say things like "well that person is suffering because they chose to do that in their life contract..."

I believe our explanations for spiritual phenomena are largely influenced by our culture. If you ask eastern religions they will often say we reincarnate rather quickly, no afterlife party. They view life as a prison of sorts, endless reincarnations that can only be stopped by rigorous spiritual practice and eventual monkhood. If you ask western people about reincarnation and the afterlife there seems to be much more joy and life is seen as an experience and bad things that happen to us are lessons to learn or even soul contracts..

Concerning a pre-birth plan and soul contracts.. it seems more of a possibility if you go with the ''free floating learning experience'' of the latter, and it seems less likely if you assume life is misery unless you're enlightened, as in the former. Who is right.. who is wrong? I have no idea. I think you can poke holes in both these explanations. We're not victims of a 'samsara' just because we desire things. That is way too simplistic. On the other hand, viewing things as 'lessons' and making soul contracts with those who incarnate as microbes or making a contract with the Earth to send a tsunami our way seems rather outlandish to me as well..


I wish I had the answer to this, but I don't..

Sorry to hear about your troubles. I don't know what it's about but I hope you find your answers..

[Spiritual_Light]

Originally Posted by Altair

I believe our explanations for spiritual phenomena are largely influenced by our culture. If you ask eastern religions they will often say we reincarnate rather quickly, no afterlife party. They view life as a prison of sorts, endless reincarnations that can only be stopped by rigorous spiritual practice and eventual monkhood. If you ask western people about reincarnation and the afterlife there seems to be much more joy and life is seen as an experience and bad things that happen to us are lessons to learn or even soul contracts..

Concerning a pre-birth plan and soul contracts.. it seems more of a possibility if you go with the ''free floating learning experience'' of the latter, and it seems less likely if you assume life is misery unless you're enlightened, as in the former. Who is right.. who is wrong? I have no idea. I think you can poke holes in both these explanations. We're not victims of a 'samsara' just because we desire things. That is way too simplistic. On the other hand, viewing things as 'lessons' and making soul contracts with those who incarnate as microbes or making a contract with the Earth to send a tsunami our way seems rather outlandish to me as well..


I wish I had the answer to this, but I don't..

Sorry to hear about your troubles. I don't know what it's about but I hope you find your answers..

Thanks for your kind words.

For 10 years I have seen some repeated mistakes on my part that lead to more problems. It was not something I did bad, it was mostly putting trust and faith in the wrong people who I thought would help me with my health problems. I kept being too honest and open about things, which led to certain people betraying me. I've read that repeating problems might be occurring as part of a lesson you are suppose d to learn from. Well that lesson was around 'trust'. Sadly, I have learnt to be closed off because of these experiences. But I seem to have made more progress with this approach. I cant understand what reason there would be to do that for progress, if that was indeed something I was supposed to learn.

Edit: I was never one to always open up about everything in my life previously either. But I opened up about my health problems to certain friends and doctors who I thought would help me if I was completely open and honest about it all. This actually turned out to be the worst thing I could have done, because I spent 6 years trying to fix those mistakes. I made more progress in the last 6 years by being more conservative about my actions and the people I chose to help me. It's kinda a messed up lesson if you ask me.

[Amilius777]

There is a general plan but nothing is set in stone

The spirit usually prepares with his or her soul group
You have guides that are assigned to you
The High Council or Elder Council who tell you what must be done in order to evolve sorta like the head masters or principals.
The spirit guides are your guidance counselors
And of course Life on earth or another planet is the School Room

And God is the power, force, and Person who set up and created all the various schools for us to go to. “Universe” and university have a funny linguistic tie.

But nothing is set in stone in regards to your choices . The only way life feels like autopilot is when we are controlled and dictated by our karma of this and past lives. Repeating the same cycles being influenced by those forces that keep us from changing.

True freedom is not a loss of individuality. In fact the most highly evolved beings are the most free, individualized, and happy. Yet they know they are connected and one with everything.

Originally Posted by Amilius777

There is a general plan but nothing is set in stone

The spirit usually prepares with his or her soul group
You have guides that are assigned to you
The High Council or Elder Council who tell you what must be done in order to evolve sorta like the head masters or principals.
The spirit guides are your guidance counselors
And of course Life on earth or another planet is the School Room

And God is the power, force, and Person who set up and created all the various schools for us to go to. “Universe” and university have a funny linguistic tie.

But nothing is set in stone in regards to your choices . The only way life feels like autopilot is when we are controlled and dictated by our karma of this and past lives. Repeating the same cycles being influenced by those forces that keep us from changing.

True freedom is not a loss of individuality. In fact the most highly evolved beings are the most free, individualized, and happy. Yet they know they are connected and one with everything.

(Applause)

True freedom is not a loss of individuality. In fact the most highly evolved beings are the most free, individualized, and happy. Yet they know they are connected and one with everything.

Agreed!

Thanks, man.

JL

[explorer007]

can it be true that many of us at here are old souls with many past lifes and maybe some people are souls from the beginning of time on the earthly plane. im sure i saw a medium once write about how you go through different lifestyles, wether it's rich or poor or being spiritual, it's like you take all those experiences and climb the spiritual ladder until the point where you can choose to not come back to the earthly body again but act as a spirit guide for someone else. the trouble with all this is we do not know for sure, it's like you have to imagine and believe and trust it.

[Rain95]

in·di·vid·u·al·i·ty
/ˌindəˌvijo͞oˈalədē/
noun
1.
the quality or character of a particular person or thing that distinguishes them from others of the same kind,

2.
separate existence.

[Miss Hepburn]

Little story that may help:

I was reading "The Disappearance of The Universe", and the author, Gary,
was complaining about how BAD and a waste of time a particular movie was...
this guy, Arten, (a teacher/spirit that manifests in flesh), then explained, It was perfect you
went to this movie rather than the other one...because... you were supposed to
get into a car accident and be hospitalized for a while
to learn a particular 'thing', (Humility? Can't rem), but this movie got out later, avoiding the acccident.
You no longer needed to learn this thing, because you have advanced SO much...

(Gary Renard had super applied himself doing A Course In Miracles....(like Marianne Williamson the basis of his books).