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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > General Beliefs

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  #511  
Old 19-05-2019, 01:14 PM
davidsun davidsun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Busby
OK, thanks.

Maybe it's too late to mention but the post of mine that started all this was based upon the recognition of the Biblical god as he/she/it as an existing force (of some kind) in the minds of that book's readers or believers.
Never too late too 'move' 'on' 'in' positively loving relational Flow, aye what, Busby?

From the treatise I am composing:

"Every aspect of Being, including ‘you’, is an influenced and influential, hence functionally integral, aspect of The Flow* of Creativity,* without exception. [Note: these asterisked words reference the same features of Life that Jesus/The Bible metaphorically alluded to as ‘the Son’ and ‘the Father’ (which many also think and speak of as Christ and God, respectively), just in more action-descriptive terms I think.]"
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  #512  
Old 19-05-2019, 01:50 PM
ketzer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Busby
Just imagine how the world would change if God would speak quite clearly to all of the 8 billion Earth inhabitants at the same time and say something like this: On the 2nd of May this year the sun will appear in the sky as always but it will be green. It will stay green for one complete turn of the planet so that everyone can see it and so know, following my words to you all, that I am.

This would be no skin off God's nose and would allow us to get on with things. And as we also know changing the colour of the sun for a day would be easy, requiring only a miracle, of which there are many in the Bible, so having a decisive miracle 2000 years later could only be positive.

This would solve quite a number of obvious problems and we wouldn't be requested 'to believe', something which has caused and still causes friction and has no point anyway. Instead of believing (in whatever) we'd KNOW.

Then we could live our lives accordingly without fighting among ourselves as to who is right. Let's get rid of all 'beliefs', all superstitions, all religious traditions, all church buildings, all professional preachers, all funny clothes, hats, bishops and popes and their ilk - in fact let's rid ourselves of the whole pot and be able to look God directly in the eye.

Why should he/she/it want it to be otherwise.?????




Well, according to the bible, God once behaved just like you wish. Yet Adam and Eve were not satisfied with such a life. They wanted the knowledge of good and evil for themselves. When we were young children we trusted what our parents told us because we were too young to understand some things for ourselves. As we grew older, we no longer wanted to just do as our parents told us, we wanted to understand for ourselves. Often we got into trouble this way, but we learn things from experience, that often cannot be taught any other way.
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  #513  
Old 19-05-2019, 03:20 PM
davidsun davidsun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ketzer
Well, according to the bible, God once behaved just like you wish. Yet Adam and Eve were not satisfied with such a life. They wanted the knowledge of good and evil for themselves. When we were young children we trusted what our parents told us because we were too young to understand some things for ourselves. As we grew older, we no longer wanted to just do as our parents told us, we wanted to understand for ourselves. Often we got into trouble this way, but we learn things from experience, that often cannot be taught any other way.
Yes. I think, there is some wisdom which 'The Bible' conveys in this regard.
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  #514  
Old 19-05-2019, 04:42 PM
Busby Busby is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ketzer
Well, according to the bible, God once behaved just like you wish. Yet Adam and Eve were not satisfied with such a life. They wanted the knowledge of good and evil for themselves. When we were young children we trusted what our parents told us because we were too young to understand some things for ourselves. As we grew older, we no longer wanted to just do as our parents told us, we wanted to understand for ourselves. Often we got into trouble this way, but we learn things from experience, that often cannot be taught any other way.

Had I been Adam (or Eve) I wouldn't have been satisfied either. Hanging around in the Garden of Eden tilling the ground, maybe for all eternity would drive anyone to change things regardless of the outcome.
In addition I'm one of those people who cannot for one moment imagine that we are here 'to learn by experience', simply because there isn't much point in such a process.
However I'll readily admit that it could be that 'God' maybe desirous of experiencing everything there is to be experienced (within the set-by-nature parameters of the universe) achieves his/her/its target by employing us (in a loving manner) as his instruments of experiencing physicality). Once 'God' has achieved h/h/i goal along comes a new universe with a new set of parameters - leading to new experiences.

Ask Brahman. That's what he appears to do, spending billions of years breathing in and a further billions of years breathing out...
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  #515  
Old 22-05-2019, 08:41 PM
ketzer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Busby
Had I been Adam (or Eve) I wouldn't have been satisfied either. Hanging around in the Garden of Eden tilling the ground, maybe for all eternity would drive anyone to change things regardless of the outcome.
In addition I'm one of those people who cannot for one moment imagine that we are here 'to learn by experience', simply because there isn't much point in such a process.
However I'll readily admit that it could be that 'God' maybe desirous of experiencing everything there is to be experienced (within the set-by-nature parameters of the universe) achieves his/her/its target by employing us (in a loving manner) as his instruments of experiencing physicality). Once 'God' has achieved h/h/i goal along comes a new universe with a new set of parameters - leading to new experiences.

Ask Brahman. That's what he appears to do, spending billions of years breathing in and a further billions of years breathing out...




Perhaps the two concepts are one in the same.
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  #516  
Old 24-05-2019, 12:44 PM
Miss Hepburn Miss Hepburn is offline
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"Ask Brahman. That's what he appears to do, spending billions of years breathing in
and a further billions of years breathing out."

-Busby


What a great way to put it!!!!!
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Prepare yourself for the coming astral journey of death by daily riding in the balloon of God-perception.
Through delusion you are perceiving yourself as a bundle of flesh and bones, which at best is a nest of troubles.
Meditate unceasingly, that you may quickly behold yourself as the Infinite Essence, free from every form of misery. ~Paramahansa's Guru's Guru
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  #517  
Old 24-05-2019, 12:52 PM
Miss Hepburn Miss Hepburn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ketzer
Yet Adam and Eve were not satisfied with such a life.
They wanted the knowledge of good and evil for themselves.

According to the Bible...(I wasn't there, so I dunno)....
It wasn't exactly as you put it.
They were tricked, bamboozled....by the flesh or ego or an actual separate being called the devil...I dunno.
It wasn't as if they were not satisfied....I'm satisfied often ....then someone tempts me with their triple chocolate cake.
...slithering snakes out there, I tellya!!!!
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*I'll text in Navy Blue when I'm speaking as a Mod. :)


Prepare yourself for the coming astral journey of death by daily riding in the balloon of God-perception.
Through delusion you are perceiving yourself as a bundle of flesh and bones, which at best is a nest of troubles.
Meditate unceasingly, that you may quickly behold yourself as the Infinite Essence, free from every form of misery. ~Paramahansa's Guru's Guru
.


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  #518  
Old 24-05-2019, 01:34 PM
ketzer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn
According to the Bible...(I wasn't there, so I dunno)....
It wasn't exactly as you put it.
They were tricked, bamboozled....by the flesh or ego or an actual separate being called the devil...I dunno.
It wasn't as if they were not satisfied....I'm satisfied often ....then someone tempts me with their triple chocolate cake.
...slithering snakes out there, I tellya!!!!




tricked? bamboozled? While many religious authorities would like us to think so, I am not so sure. As always, it is difficult to separate the bias of the reporter from the account of the events. The serpent told them that if they eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, they would become as God, at least with respect to this sort of knowledge anyway. Perhaps they should have asked just how bitter the fruit may taste before taking a bite, but it seems to me the knowledge of good and evil is at least one thing they (we) are getting with this life experience. Though the fruit may be rather bitter, perhaps it is better for us then we know. They say ignorance is bliss, yet it seems to me ignorance is often the underlying cause of prejudice, hatred, and violence. Perhaps this bliss of ignorance is a fleeting thing (especially when we become aware that our neighbor has a triple chocolate cake and we can't understand why they refuse to share).
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  #519  
Old 06-06-2019, 03:23 PM
Miss Hepburn Miss Hepburn is offline
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Relating back to Adam and Eve a few posts back...
Quote:
Originally Posted by ketzer
tricked? bamboozled? While many religious authorities would like us to think so, I am not so sure. As always, it is difficult to separate the bias of the reporter from the account of the events. The serpent told them that if they eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, they would become as God, at least with respect to this sort of knowledge anyway. Perhaps they should have asked just how bitter the fruit may taste before taking a bite, but it seems to me the knowledge of good and evil is at least one thing they (we) are getting with this life experience.
Though the fruit may be rather bitter, perhaps it is better for us then we know.
They say ignorance is bliss, yet it seems to me ignorance is often the underlying cause of prejudice, hatred, and violence.
Perhaps this bliss of ignorance is a fleeting thing (especially when we become aware that our neighbor has a triple chocolate cake and we can't understand why they refuse to share).
I had not seen this post directed to my post, sorry.

"tricked?" And lied to... Yes...they were already in a state of happiness, all was provided for them, they were satisfied
as the Babes in the Woods that they were ...until tempted.
They were ignorant of 'the flip side'...any darkness, selfishness, evil...

the 'snake' made out he was benefiting them offering them the same knowledge that God had...as if
God was keeping something from them that could benefit them.


They were lied to and tricked.

The term ignorance is bliss..refers back to our Original State in the proverbial 1st Garden....
I mean, if that all really happened.
Ignorant of darkness, the duality of bad and good....they only knew good...
ignorant of any 'bad'.
(Btw, as said above, there was no tilling of the soil...or labor or sweating...it was Paradise.
We don't get bored in Paradise!!)

Ignorance is bliss can also refer to the deep state of stillness when we are not aware any longer of
ourselves...and we are in a State of Bliss. (I'm not saying this from books.)
That is, Satchitanand, Samadhi, Nirvana, Heaven, Reality, Ecstasy, Home....many names.
__________________

.
*I'll text in Navy Blue when I'm speaking as a Mod. :)


Prepare yourself for the coming astral journey of death by daily riding in the balloon of God-perception.
Through delusion you are perceiving yourself as a bundle of flesh and bones, which at best is a nest of troubles.
Meditate unceasingly, that you may quickly behold yourself as the Infinite Essence, free from every form of misery. ~Paramahansa's Guru's Guru
.


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  #520  
Old 06-06-2019, 09:31 PM
ketzer
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn
Relating back to Adam and Eve a few posts back...
I had not seen this post directed to my post, sorry.

"tricked?" And lied to... Yes...they were already in a state of happiness, all was provided for them, they were satisfied
as the Babes in the Woods that they were ...until tempted.
They were ignorant of 'the flip side'...any darkness, selfishness, evil...

the 'snake' made out he was benefiting them offering them the same knowledge that God had...as if
God was keeping something from them that could benefit them.


They were lied to and tricked.

The term ignorance is bliss..refers back to our Original State in the proverbial 1st Garden....
I mean, if that all really happened.
Ignorant of darkness, the duality of bad and good....they only knew good...
ignorant of any 'bad'.
(Btw, as said above, there was no tilling of the soil...or labor or sweating...it was Paradise.
We don't get bored in Paradise!!)

Ignorance is bliss can also refer to the deep state of stillness when we are not aware any longer of
ourselves...and we are in a State of Bliss. (I'm not saying this from books.)
That is, Satchitanand, Samadhi, Nirvana, Heaven, Reality, Ecstasy, Home....many names.

You are quite right, that is the official version as handed down through the judeo-christian religious establishment and sanctified as the word of God by generations of Scribes and Pharisees. But I suspect that then, as now, and all the way in between, the news cannot always be trusted at face value, as often those who are reporting it have an agenda of their own to push. The mythologies in Genesis did not all start with the Israelites. They were handed down in many different forms from many different mesopotamian cultures for generations before the book of Genesis was written, borrowing selectively from those mythologies and customizing them to meet the needs of the writers.
Good and evil are not two things, but are instead two perspectives on one thing. One cannot know one without knowing the other. The one cannot be defined without defining the other, if not directly, then necessarily by inference.
Religions are fond of exclaiming the goodness of God, and telling everyone how God should be praised for this goodness. But if we lack the knowledge of what good and evil are, how are we to appreciate that God is good? Is it not empty and meaningless praise to extol the virtues of one when we have no knowledge of what those virtues mean? If we seek union with God, do we expect God to align with us, or is it up to us to align our hearts and souls with God? Is it possible, that Adam and Eve ate the fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil not because they wanted to usurp God’s role, but because they wanted to know and understand the love and goodness of God, and feel unity with the universal source?
Growing up I was told that God was good and wanted me to be good (or else!). But what it meant to be good and what it meant to be evil was not something for me to figure out, it was the church that would provide me with that information. My job was to accept it and make sure I truly believed and followed it (or else!). Follow the religion, whether it makes sense to you or not, and eternal love awaits in paradise, but outside of the church’s teaching there was only damnation and eternal torment at the hands of evil. With the soul itself at risk, the church was indispensable as the only entity that had the critical knowledge of good and evil. The knowledge of good and evil is a rare and precious thing ya know, it is not just something that grows on trees for you to reach up and pick! You need the church to tell you what to think and believe, they are the only ones who can tell you how to find God. Never mind that lying serpent hanging from those branches, he is a slimy sneak who has no arms and legs and must slither through the grass. God must have been really ticked off to do that to him. Look what happened to Adam and Eve when they tried to nourish themselves with the knowledge of good and evil. Better stick with what the church tells you.
Poor snake ended up being the one that had to take the fall for the supposed fall of man. I have never known a snake to be deceptive, and they are not slippery or slimy. Typically, they are good about giving fair warning, hissing and rattling at you if they feel threatened. The Scribes and Pharisees, and Priests and Preachers, on the other hand, I have found one needs to be careful about getting drawn in to close to them. Mankind never fell from God’s grace. It’s not a matter of Adam and Eve being punished for disobeying God, but rather a story to get you to obey the church. If man is aware of nakedness, it is his own naked ignorance of God, but that is OK, knowing one is ignorant of something is the first step in learning about it, and each lifetime teaches a bit more. At least we agree on one part anyway, there is some real trickery going on in the book of Genesis.




"Ooooooouuuuuuu!!! I have been bamboozled!!" ... The Burgermeister Meisterburger
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