Meng-Wu - The Sociology of Compassion

[Shivani Devi]

This is going to be a bit of a story.

I have never been able to feel compassion or empathy, due to a traumatic childhood which has robbed most of my positive emotional responses from me.

I have also been diagnosed with Autism, so identifying with the whole "human condition" is something that does not come naturally for me and I tend to rationalise emotional triggers, instead of allowing myself to be fully present in them.

This has both positive and negative consequences.

On the positive side, I am more calm, level headed, logical, focused and meticulous to detail...I live mostly inside my left brain at the total expense of my right brain.

The bad news is, that it is my right brain which controls the functions of the nervous system and my nervous system has almost totally broken down now...because it seems that it requires the input of healthy emotions to do its job properly.

Other functions of right-brained emotional input have to do with the formation of social skills and social skills are learned through the cultivation of empathy and compassion...and I have zero social skills.

For many years, I have sought treatment for my persistent alexithymia:
https://livingautism.com/alexithymia-empathy-autism/

It took the attitude of others in response to an act of compassion (showing an adverse reaction when I expected a positive emotion) to bring this to light for me...why can some feel such things and others not feel them? even if they are NOT on the Autism spectrum like myself?

After searching for years, today I had an appointment with a Psychologist who specialises in Adult Autism when all the other Psychologists that I have ever seen were not (and therefore unhelpful for me).

She has started me on this program called "Compassion Focused Therapy" for it is one thing for others to say 'be compassionate' only for me to reply 'how?' and for them to say 'love others' and for me to reply 'how'? so then they say 'love yourself' and for me once again, to reply 'how'? I have never learned these things...but I also know this isn't like reading a book to learn it, because if it was THAT easy, I would have mastered it ages ago!

My psychologist introduced me to a Dr. Paul Gilbert (a Neuroscientist) and his work with the Compassionate Mind Training Institute....oh wow, there are scientific institutes based upon Buddhist scriptures!

So, with this information in hand, I went on YouTube to research this...to prepare myself for this training and to see what I was going to be up against.

In the process, I came across quite a few lectures on Buddhist Neurology and the neurological and sociological development of compassion in the human species called Meng-Wu...here are a few of them:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKKg3CDczpA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LS3-dt5p-84
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnPFtg6YsuI

I am half way through watching these and my mind is being blown (and that is nigh impossible to achieve).

I feel therefore that I am on the right track here and I am posting this for the benefit of those who have never heard about it before.

No arguments, disagreements or bashing of my post/thread here please because I am in a very fragile state due to my PTSD. I would like only happy, positive comments about this and respectfully request that those who cannot do so, to refrain from giving their opinion as I am unable to deal with negative criticism..and just ask for your mindful compassion instead. Thank you.

[NoOne]

Wow, that is great news, I'm so happy for you. As we discussed, elsewhere, you are clearly one of those people in whom one side of the brain dominates over the other, hence the overactivity of your Solar side, including the heat generated by it and the Autistic tendencies you mentioned. The Lunar / Goddess side of your personality needs to be strengthened and enhanced and this sounds like it could be very effective. Keep us updated.

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by NoOne

Wow, that is great news, I'm so happy for you. As we discussed, elsewhere, you are clearly one of those people in whom one side of the brain dominates over the other, hence the overactivity of your Solar side, including the heat generated by it and the Autistic tendencies you mentioned. The Lunar / Goddess side of your personality needs to be strengthened and enhanced and this sounds like it could be very effective. Keep us updated.

Thank you, my dear and yes it does look to be quite promising at this stage.

For the first time last night (in many years), I actually went outside and looked around at the moon and stars for about an hour because I enjoy that feeling of awe and insignificance...so I sense that something is starting to shift.

It takes discipline and habit to also "exercise the spirit" just as much as it does to exercise the body...and I also know that Buddhists don't believe in a "Self" or "Soul", so what do they call that part of who they are essentially, that is not their mind or body, yet it is still there?

Is it "Buddha Nature"?

Whatever it is, mine has atrophied due to disuse and just 'surviving' rather than 'living'.

Thank you again and yes, I need to learn how to embrace the Goddess fully..but this is also something that doesn't come naturally for me either. I also realise that limiting myself to all those things which "comes naturally" can also be equated to me remaining within my "comfort zone" and I have spent more than enough time there already.

[guthrio]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

Thank you, my dear and yes it does look to be quite promising at this stage.

For the first time last night (in many years), I actually went outside and looked around at the moon and stars for about an hour because I enjoy that feeling of awe and insignificance...so I sense that something is starting to shift.

It takes discipline and habit to also "exercise the spirit" just as much as it does to exercise the body...and I also know that Buddhists don't believe in a "Self" or "Soul", so what do they call that part of who they are essentially, that is not their mind or body, yet it is still there?

Is it "Buddha Nature"?

Whatever it is, mine has atrophied due to disuse and just 'surviving' rather than 'living'.

Thank you again and yes, I need to learn how to embrace the Goddess fully..but this is also something that doesn't come naturally for me either. I also realise that limiting myself to all those things which "comes naturally" can also be equated to me remaining within my "comfort zone" and I have spent more than enough time there already.

Shivani Devi,

Your posts have amazed me, as much as the Spirit by which you've addressed them.

Watching the 1st of the YouTube videos you provided, I can see how you would be helped through use of the well-explained tools contained therein.

I can also see how use of such tools brought you to the "place" you described above, where you "actually went outside and looked around at the moon and stars for about an hour because I enjoy that feeling of awe and insignificance...so I sense that something is starting to shift."

Discovering, and then yielding to the invitation to exploring the shift, is where I currently am, as well, albeit arriving at this point through experiential processes that are as unique (different) to my life, as are the events which eventually "moved you outside" last night.

It has occurred to me that the collective journey that the Emergence of Contemplative Neuroscience has traveled (as described in the Meng Wu lectures)...may be helpful to describe a way of thinking about minds....

....but would not be nearly as helpful as what is implicit in the experience you wrote about, above. Why?

...because there are no words to describe its "effortlessness", nor need there be, whether called "Buddha Nature" (as you inquired), or "Meng Wu", or "compassion".

In answer Miss Hepburn's posts entitled, "How to see God everywhere! What do you do?" your excellent answer was to....

"Break everything down to a quark...to a string of entangled quantum energy and call it "God".

"Have the "Higgs Field" become God's manufacturing machine.
Have the Fibonacci sequence and the Golden Mean become God's template.
Have pure, unconditional Love as the activation and sustaining force for everything in existence.
The stars we see in the sky emitted that light we can see before the Earth was even formed...before our eyes were even created to SEE that light, and yet, we can.
From where does the feeling in my heart originate? from chemicals in my brain! from where do these chemicals originate? from my DNA...from where does my DNA originate? from the Big Bang...what put the "Bang" in the "Big Bang?" well, God wondered what would happen if "He" decided to 'divide by zero'. :)

Yes, I can see God everywhere...and in everything...

Keeping my attention fully there for any more than a split second to prevent my head from imploding is another matter entirely.

....whose "attention" is it that is makes things "matter" in the first place?

It's not that YOU are insignificant, compared to the splendor you experienced last night...it's that any description of such splendor is woefully insignificant.

...as is, in my opinion, the weight given to the names by which we seek to "capture" That which is infinitely beyond capturing. "Yes, I can see God everywhere...and in everything..." as you stated.

From where does the feeling in your heart originate, you asked?

The answer to this question is what I suspect compelled Siddhartha Gautama to "powerfully express His answer silently" when asked by those who need a descriptive name to understand, "What is the nature of the Buddha-mind?

The feeling originates from the same place where You feel You in the Mirror of Creation, as does Buddha's heart, (and each of our own) perfectly expresses in the only way possible...

....everywhere, silently, compassionately.

All multiplied by Zero or All divided by Zero....remains yet All One.

What words could even begin to describe the ALL experiencing Itself as....the Being Who Calls Herself Shivani Devi?

I am hoping you can feel the answer to this....as wordlessly as Buddha's own silence....in the night sky.

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by guthrio

Shivani Devi,

Your posts have amazed me, as much as the Spirit by which you've addressed them.

Watching the 1st of the YouTube videos you provided, I can see how you would be helped through use of the well-explained tools contained therein.

I can also see how use of such tools brought you to the "place" you described above, where you "actually went outside and looked around at the moon and stars for about an hour because I enjoy that feeling of awe and insignificance...so I sense that something is starting to shift."

Discovering, and then yielding to the invitation to exploring the shift, is where I currently am, as well, albeit arriving at this point through experiential processes that are as unique (different) to my life, as are the events which eventually "moved you outside" last night.

It has occurred to me that the collective journey that the Emergence of Contemplative Neuroscience has traveled (as described in the Meng Wu lectures)...may be helpful to describe a way of thinking about minds....

....but would not be nearly as helpful as what is implicit in the experience you wrote about, above. Why?

...because there are no words to describe its "effortlessness", nor need there be, whether called "Buddha Nature" (as you inquired), or "Meng Wu", or "compassion".

In answer Miss Hepburn's posts entitled, "How to see God everywhere! What do you do?" your excellent answer was to....

"Break everything down to a quark...to a string of entangled quantum energy and call it "God".

"Have the "Higgs Field" become God's manufacturing machine.
Have the Fibonacci sequence and the Golden Mean become God's template.
Have pure, unconditional Love as the activation and sustaining force for everything in existence.
The stars we see in the sky emitted that light we can see before the Earth was even formed...before our eyes were even created to SEE that light, and yet, we can.
From where does the feeling in my heart originate? from chemicals in my brain! from where do these chemicals originate? from my DNA...from where does my DNA originate? from the Big Bang...what put the "Bang" in the "Big Bang?" well, God wondered what would happen if "He" decided to 'divide by zero'. :)

Yes, I can see God everywhere...and in everything...

Keeping my attention fully there for any more than a split second to prevent my head from imploding is another matter entirely.

....whose "attention" is it that is makes things "matter" in the first place?

It's not that YOU are insignificant, compared to the splendor you experienced last night...it's that any description of such splendor is woefully insignificant.

...as is, in my opinion, the weight given to the names by which we seek to "capture" That which is infinitely beyond capturing. "Yes, I can see God everywhere...and in everything..." as you stated.

From where does the feeling in your heart originate, you asked?

The answer to this question is what I suspect compelled Siddhartha Gautama to "powerfully express His answer silently" when asked by those who need a descriptive name to understand, "What is the nature of the Buddha-mind?

The feeling originates from the same place where You feel You in the Mirror of Creation, as does Buddha's heart, (and each of our own) perfectly expresses in the only way possible...

....everywhere, silently, compassionately.

All multiplied by Zero or All divided by Zero....remains yet All One.

What words could even begin to describe the ALL experiencing Itself as....the Being Who Calls Herself Shivani Devi?

I am hoping you can feel the answer to this....as wordlessly as Buddha's own silence....in the night sky.

Thank you for that beautiful reply, Guthrio.

I must not be dead yet, because the humble truth of what you have just shared brought a tear to my eye....a tear of understanding and of recognition at a deeper level beyond the inquiring mind.

I'm also beginning to understand that any experience is where I place my awareness and attention...and while the experience of spendor, awe, compassion, humility, bliss etc may be effortless, training the mind (or consciousness awareness) to always rest there, instead of internalizing it into a "state of be-ing" or getting continually distracted by the demands of existence, seems to take much effort...but I guess, like anything, this becomes a lot easier with applied practice, until even the effortlessness happens all by itself.

Sort of where Meng Wu meets Wu Wei.

The exploration of this state is delicious...like a baby seeing things for the very first time...all the layers of texture are intriguing and the adaptation to what IS, is just incredible, through no effort...or rather "effortless effort"....



Yes, even the mere exploration of neuroscience in regards to the emergence of conscious ethic is keeping me stuck within my own intellect, with the notion of "it takes a thorn to remove a thorn", yet all the while understanding that "Buddhi" means "mind" and the transcendence of the mind, rests in the awareness of who Shivani Devi is NOT, rather than who she merely thinks or believes that she is.

Meanwhile, Bruce Lee is saying "be water, my friend".

[Shivani Devi]

While I am in an inspirational mood, kindly allow and forgive this indulgence into Buddhist principles...however, there are certain things which are facilitating this awareness of "being present" and I also 'feel like' sharing them:



How a tree actually did that, still has me scratching my head...until I realise that "scratching my head" is actually a GOOD thing.



It seems that this tree is totally oblivious as to where it is growing...the surrounding environment. It just grows there because it CAN.



Yeah, so...it seems that it is only my perception of things and my belief in or awareness of this notion called "gravity" which leads me to believe that this is impossible...apparently not.



Or my perception of "teddy bear" which has me realising that this cloud formation is actually shaped like one (and the jokes the universe loves to play).

All of this leads me to realise that there is more going on than what I can logically perceive.

I would also love to welcome other pictures like this...if others have any they can share to help me out here.

[JosephineB]

Glad things are looking up for you Shivani Devi. Talking of looking up. I saw a cloud formation the other day of a rabbit and duck which has a specific significance to me. Love the pictures you've posted. Sorry, I have no photo though :-(

[guthrio]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

Thank you for that beautiful reply, Guthrio.

I must not be dead yet, because the humble truth of what you have just shared brought a tear to my eye....a tear of understanding and of recognition at a deeper level beyond the inquiring mind.

I'm also beginning to understand that any experience is where I place my awareness and attention...and while the experience of spendor, awe, compassion, humility, bliss etc may be effortless, training the mind (or consciousness awareness) to always rest there, instead of internalizing it into a "state of be-ing" or getting continually distracted by the demands of existence, seems to take much effort...but I guess, like anything, this becomes a lot easier with applied practice, until even the effortlessness happens all by itself.

Sort of where Meng Wu meets Wu Wei.

The exploration of this state is delicious...like a baby seeing things for the very first time...all the layers of texture are intriguing and the adaptation to what IS, is just incredible, through no effort...or rather "effortless effort"....



Yes, even the mere exploration of neuroscience in regards to the emergence of conscious ethic is keeping me stuck within my own intellect, with the notion of "it takes a thorn to remove a thorn", yet all the while understanding that "Buddhi" means "mind" and the transcendence of the mind, rests in the awareness of who Shivani Devi is NOT, rather than who she merely thinks or believes that she is.

Meanwhile, Bruce Lee is saying "be water, my friend".

Shivani Devi,

I am so glad our discussion has been helpful.

The following came to me just before I retired for the night, but for some reason SF software was not cooperating for me to post it until now:

"Be water my friend", said Bruce Lee.

"..... even as in a tear, my friend", said Siddhartha Gautama.

Nice thread SD - thanks

[guthrio]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

While I am in an inspirational mood, kindly allow and forgive this indulgence into Buddhist principles...however, there are certain things which are facilitating this awareness of "being present" and I also 'feel like' sharing them:



How a tree actually did that, still has me scratching my head...until I realise that "scratching my head" is actually a GOOD thing.



It seems that this tree is totally oblivious as to where it is growing...the surrounding environment. It just grows there because it CAN.



Yeah, so...it seems that it is only my perception of things and my belief in or awareness of this notion called "gravity" which leads me to believe that this is impossible...apparently not.



Or my perception of "teddy bear" which has me realising that this cloud formation is actually shaped like one (and the jokes the universe loves to play).

All of this leads me to realise that there is more going on than what I can logically perceive.

I would also love to welcome other pictures like this...if others have any they can share to help me out here.

....how's this?

https://explore.org/livecams/zen-den...-space-station