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Old 27-08-2012, 12:48 PM
Squatchit Squatchit is offline
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My Thoughts on Astral Projection and Lucid Dreaming

Hello fellow projectors/dreamers

I have been nudged - *prodded* - to write this. I've written bits & bobs before, mainly pre-crash. Thought I had a lot of it stored on my old computer but can't find it (*cries*) so had to start again.

Just to confirm, these are my thoughts/experiences and I make no claim that any of this is true or a universal truth (or Truth, lol). I've come to these conclusions based on the years of experience/experiment/understanding. Even now, my 'conclusions' change with the breeze and I have days/periods where I think it's all simply in my head.

Generally speaking, I have three types of experiences. I rarely post them in the astral projection forum (or even the lucid dreaming forum) as I've come to see them all as simply 'experiences'. I'd rather not sub-label them and get into debates about the terminology. I post them in my own personal MySpace YourSpace Space, called Squatchit's Scribbles.

OK. So here are the three experiences, sub-labelled for the purpose of this post, lol.

Out-of-Body-Experience (OBE)

This is how *all this* started. I was having an afternoon nap and my mind woke up a few seconds before my body. I'd been reading about OBEs (via a lucid dreaming website) and wondered if I could leave my body. Amazingly, I did.

Over the next couple of years, I had many OBEs. Most of them involved separating from the physical (using a variety of methods) and exploring what appeared to be physical reality. However, physical reality would sometimes look different with doors in the wrong places and so on.

I occasionally encountered other people, learned to fly, went through hundreds of windows/doors/walls, met a group of beer-drinking monkeys, tried to contact deceased friends, tried to contact alive friends, learned to create portals, went through mirrors, explored the nature of my 'second' body, went through the back of the wardrobe in an attempt to get to Narnia, and many other things that are written down in my journals. I also successfully carried out the playing card experiment that Robert Bruce suggests in his book, Astral Dynamics.

In all the hundreds of OBEs I've had over the years, I've probably encountered the vibrations a handful of times. I have experienced sleep paralysis, but because I read about it before experiencing it, was never scared and actually enjoyed exploring how to get through it.

As time went on, I began to have OBEs from dreams. And that's when the lucidity began and I became an avid student of 'phasing'.

Phasing

Phasing is quite simply phasing out of the physical and into the non-physical without any break of consciousness. Rather like changing the frequency on a radio from one station to another. From what I know of it, and based on my experiences, a Wake-Initiated-Lucid-Dream (WILD) is the same as Phasing. It was Robert Monroe who first used the term 'Phasing' and I think he wanted to get away from the word 'dream' so as not to dissuade anyone from exploring consciousness.

Of the three types of experience, phasing is my favourite. I had a period of time when it would happen maybe three times a week. These days it's much less... mainly because my focus of attention has shifted.

During the night after a few sleep cycles, I will wake up and practise. This involves watching myself go back to sleep...until the body is asleep and the mind is still awake. Getting the mind to a very deep state and staying awake is a balancing act. Oh and there is the hypnagogic stage to get through first.

The hynagogic stage involves visual/auditory and tactile sensations that need to be ignored to get through it to the next stage. Mine are mostly auditory. Bear in mind, I wear ear plugs and an eye mask so cannot hear or see anything physical.

I have had dogs barking, doorbells ringing, church bells ringing, my name being called loudly right against my ear, singing, voices (especially sounding like they are coming from a radio), rain lashing against the window, footsteps outside the bedroom door, and so on.

It took me many times to get used to these noises and ignore them. I found what helped was to remain emotionally neutral (SO important, imo) and turn in on myself. Sort of like curling up inside yourself, making yourself smaller and lower/deeper. It got me through that stage faster and easier.

If I hear footsteps and my mind thinks, "oh my, someone is outside my bedroom," then the mind has started to create and will manifest the door opening and the mind thinks, "oh *insert swear word*!" then the emotions kick in (fear) and before I know it, I am being strangled by a masked man in my bed. All because I allowed my mind to tell a story and my body woke up and reacted with fear. And then of course I wake up with a jolt - and think, "oh darn it, I was almost there."

Once I'm through the hypnagogic stage, everything goes very quiet and black. Then the images begin in my mind. Very quickly at first, maybe 10 per second. I watch them and eventually they slow down. One will stop and stay there. That's when I know I'm ready to phase. I will use my dream arm or mind to enter the image (if it hasn't happened automatically). I tend to use touch as my primary entrance. If I can get hold of something, a wall, grass, a tree, then instantly I find myself in the image. It's three-dimensional, full colour and I'm totally lucid. Simply put I've just walked into my own dreamscape. Without a loss of consciousness.

Astral Projection

I use this term if one of two things happen during either OBEs or lucid dreaming. During an OBE, if I go through a door/wall/picture/mirror/portal and find myself somewhere totally different than expected, I deduce I'm in the astral.

During phasing/lucid dreaming, if I remove the 'dream' aspects of my dream (through various techniques) and create a new environment, then I deduce I'm in the astral.

I have found that my astral experiences tend to be fairly 'human' in terms of environment/landscape and population. I've had one or two strange things and met a deceased friend or two, but otherwise they are pretty 'normal' experiences.

Sometimes everything seems so much brighter and cleaner, sometimes people are very tall - up to 12 ft - and sometimes animals are not quite how they should be. I've visited Monroe's 'The Park' and seen Monroe himself a couple of times.

---ooo000ooo---

These days, all the above experience tend to overlap. Which is why I'm more reluctant to separate them. I find myself rocking in a dream (either side-to-side or backwards-forwards) and leap out of my dream body, thereby creating a third body. Or I simply become lucid and go through the nearest wall to escape the existing dream and change environment. To the astral or a more 'public' dreamscape.

I'm of the opinion that lucidity is a very important factor...not necessarily for where you are, but for memory/control and keeping a level head. I once read many years ago over at the Astral Pulse someone said, 'Lucid dreaming is experiencing the dream, whereas non-lucid dreaming is simply remembering it.' That's stayed with me all these years. To actually experience a dream at the time you are dreaming it makes all the difference.

I think there are personal dreamscapes and public dreamscapes. I also think there are scapes/places/mindstates that have different properties. For instance, in some dreams I can easily manifest; in others I am unable to do so, regardless of the level of lucidity.

The whole of consciousness could be deemed under the umbrella of 'astral'. To me, it matters not whether I've been to the 'astral proper' or my own personal dreamscape. As long as I've enjoyed it, had fun, and perhaps learned something, then that will do me.

My very latest thoughts about why I always seem to end up in 'human' environments is that I'm there to show those residents/characters/dreamers that there is more to their reality than what they perceive. I become the 'higher' being (ugh, that doesn't trip off the tongue too well, but I hope you get my drift). Either by becoming holographic or explaining about the nature of a dreamscape. Teaching them to go through walls or doing a bit of magic for them. Flying around them...but also explaining they can fly too. I'm never violent (it's not in my nature) even though I often come across violence. If I'm lucid enough to face it, I always dissipate it with the tricks of my trade.

In essence, I'm quite gritty and down-to-earth, but have a box of tricks up my sleeve. I'm more suited to these human realms.

---ooo000ooo--

Phew. And I haven't even mentioned the Void.

Any questions, feel free to ask. I can only answer for me based on my experiences. I know I keep stressing that, but it's quite important (for me, ha!) to make that clear.
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  #2  
Old 27-08-2012, 02:22 PM
Allura
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This is a brilliant post and I hope others will gain a better understanding from it! Thank you! My thoughts are very much the same as yours and my experiences are very similar. In my journey to figure out the differences between OBEs and lucid dreaming, I have begun to request going OBE while in a lucid dream. Every time I have tried this technique, I find myself descending through the dream until I find myself floating above my physical body. I would love to find out if you've tried this and what your experiences are with it. Normally I have to make the request 2-3 times before I start descending, but the results are the same each time.

The void is great fun, it's where I go once my lucid dream dissolves and before another begins. It's like the canvas for our imagination. Makes me wonder about the various layers of our non-physical environment, the search continues...

Thank again!
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  #3  
Old 27-08-2012, 02:25 PM
vicky3619 vicky3619 is offline
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Thanks you squatchitttt for writting that :)
Wow,all what you said really resonate with me !thanks for posting that :)
In the Phasing,the noise that you talk are mind created or physical noises that could wake you up ? I think its mind created when you talked of the man strangling you because you let your mind wander,but just asking to be sure ahah :)
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Old 27-08-2012, 03:08 PM
Squatchit Squatchit is offline
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Hiya Allura

Firstly, welcome to SF and nice to 'meet' you.

Thank you for reading this lengthy post and adding your thoughts - it's always encouraging to find others have similar experiences - I feel less alone!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Allura
In my journey to figure out the differences between OBEs and lucid dreaming, I have begun to request going OBE while in a lucid dream. Every time I have tried this technique, I find myself descending through the dream until I find myself floating above my physical body. I would love to find out if you've tried this and what your experiences are with it.

Hmmmm that's interesting. Long ago I lost the desire for OBEs. I got bored (can you believe it?!) of stumbling around my bedroom/house wondering what to do. I still love to play around with pushing my arms/hands through 'solid' matter (and it's my favourite confirmation when lucid dreaming). However if I'm in a lucid dream, the last thing I want to do is turn it into an OBE. These days I really enjoy staying in the dream and if it's interesting, I will even leave it be...meaning I won't try and escape the dream to another environment.

There are still occasions while I'll naturally wind up outside of my body floating around the room. Whilst I still enjoy them, I no longer actively seek them out.

The void....oh how I love the void. I often forget that I'm in the void (even after all these years) and think I'm blind or stumbling around in the dark....doh! I love to do roly-polys in the void, totally suspended in that rich velvety blackness. Wonderful!

Squatch
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Old 27-08-2012, 03:12 PM
Squatchit Squatchit is offline
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Hiya Vicky

You are more than welcome. I'm pleased it resonates with you and you've enjoyed reading it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vicky3619
In the Phasing,the noise that you talk are mind created or physical noises that could wake you up ? I think its mind created when you talked of the man strangling you because you let your mind wander,but just asking to be sure ahah :)

Yes, it's mind-created. Because I wear ear plugs, I'm unlikely to actually hear any of these noises if they were physical. Even though I know the sounds are not physical, they still make me jump awake from time to time - especially those pesky footsteps.

I can't imagine sleeping without ear plugs now - have been wearing them for about 6 years.
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  #6  
Old 27-08-2012, 06:10 PM
mintkiss mintkiss is offline
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I've noticed as well that astral/lucidity seems to overlap. Astral Projection and Lucid Dreams have always very much intrigued me but It's never really been my specialty although I have experienced them both a few times. I'm not entirely sure if I've totally APed though. One of my memories that stands the most when I APed(or think I did) was when I was outside of my body and remember touching some wood, a side-table or something similar. It felt... so much more REAL than anything on earth ever has. I'm not really sure how else to describe it.
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  #7  
Old 28-08-2012, 02:02 AM
Allura
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squatchit

The void....oh how I love the void. I often forget that I'm in the void (even after all these years) and think I'm blind or stumbling around in the dark....doh! I love to do roly-polys in the void, totally suspended in that rich velvety blackness. Wonderful!

Squatch

YES! Have you ever tried singing while suspended in the void? You'd be amazed at how lovely your voice sounds! LOL!

I completely understand wanting to stay within the dream, I so enjoy lucid dreaming. I don't actively seek OBEs, but was very curious about the difference between the two. It's fun to do experiments of all kinds, isn't it?

Lately I have been trying to meet up with friends within a lucid dream. For many months I would go searching for them while holding my intent and it rarely worked but a handful of times. So, I decided to call for them instead and it works like a charm! Ha! Funny how we continue to try the same thing over and over before we realize another way is so much easier and efficient. Have you had any success with this? Just curious, because my friends don't seem to remember, but they're also not lucid dreamers. Thanks!
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  #8  
Old 28-08-2012, 02:45 AM
Xan Xan is offline
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Excellent article, Squatch... I'm sure I'll refer folks to it.

I very much like the focus on 'experiencing', whatever way it's defined.

And oh yes... the lovely void.

And oh yes... the realms of light, both soft and bright.


Xan
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  #9  
Old 28-08-2012, 06:53 AM
aloks5 aloks5 is offline
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Thums up for a brilliant post and thanks
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Old 28-08-2012, 06:55 AM
Astral Explorer Astral Explorer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squatchit
Hello fellow projectors/dreamers

I have been nudged - *prodded* - to write this. I've written bits & bobs before, mainly pre-crash. Thought I had a lot of it stored on my old computer but can't find it (*cries*) so had to start again.

Just to confirm, these are my thoughts/experiences and I make no claim that any of this is true or a universal truth (or Truth, lol). I've come to these conclusions based on the years of experience/experiment/understanding. Even now, my 'conclusions' change with the breeze and I have days/periods where I think it's all simply in my head.

Generally speaking, I have three types of experiences. I rarely post them in the astral projection forum (or even the lucid dreaming forum) as I've come to see them all as simply 'experiences'. I'd rather not sub-label them and get into debates about the terminology. I post them in my own personal MySpace YourSpace Space, called Squatchit's Scribbles.

OK. So here are the three experiences, sub-labelled for the purpose of this post, lol.

Out-of-Body-Experience (OBE)

This is how *all this* started. I was having an afternoon nap and my mind woke up a few seconds before my body. I'd been reading about OBEs (via a lucid dreaming website) and wondered if I could leave my body. Amazingly, I did.

Over the next couple of years, I had many OBEs. Most of them involved separating from the physical (using a variety of methods) and exploring what appeared to be physical reality. However, physical reality would sometimes look different with doors in the wrong places and so on.

I occasionally encountered other people, learned to fly, went through hundreds of windows/doors/walls, met a group of beer-drinking monkeys, tried to contact deceased friends, tried to contact alive friends, learned to create portals, went through mirrors, explored the nature of my 'second' body, went through the back of the wardrobe in an attempt to get to Narnia, and many other things that are written down in my journals. I also successfully carried out the playing card experiment that Robert Bruce suggests in his book, Astral Dynamics.

In all the hundreds of OBEs I've had over the years, I've probably encountered the vibrations a handful of times. I have experienced sleep paralysis, but because I read about it before experiencing it, was never scared and actually enjoyed exploring how to get through it.

As time went on, I began to have OBEs from dreams. And that's when the lucidity began and I became an avid student of 'phasing'.

Phasing

Phasing is quite simply phasing out of the physical and into the non-physical without any break of consciousness. Rather like changing the frequency on a radio from one station to another. From what I know of it, and based on my experiences, a Wake-Initiated-Lucid-Dream (WILD) is the same as Phasing. It was Robert Monroe who first used the term 'Phasing' and I think he wanted to get away from the word 'dream' so as not to dissuade anyone from exploring consciousness.

Of the three types of experience, phasing is my favourite. I had a period of time when it would happen maybe three times a week. These days it's much less... mainly because my focus of attention has shifted.

During the night after a few sleep cycles, I will wake up and practise. This involves watching myself go back to sleep...until the body is asleep and the mind is still awake. Getting the mind to a very deep state and staying awake is a balancing act. Oh and there is the hypnagogic stage to get through first.

The hynagogic stage involves visual/auditory and tactile sensations that need to be ignored to get through it to the next stage. Mine are mostly auditory. Bear in mind, I wear ear plugs and an eye mask so cannot hear or see anything physical.

I have had dogs barking, doorbells ringing, church bells ringing, my name being called loudly right against my ear, singing, voices (especially sounding like they are coming from a radio), rain lashing against the window, footsteps outside the bedroom door, and so on.

It took me many times to get used to these noises and ignore them. I found what helped was to remain emotionally neutral (SO important, imo) and turn in on myself. Sort of like curling up inside yourself, making yourself smaller and lower/deeper. It got me through that stage faster and easier.

If I hear footsteps and my mind thinks, "oh my, someone is outside my bedroom," then the mind has started to create and will manifest the door opening and the mind thinks, "oh *insert swear word*!" then the emotions kick in (fear) and before I know it, I am being strangled by a masked man in my bed. All because I allowed my mind to tell a story and my body woke up and reacted with fear. And then of course I wake up with a jolt - and think, "oh darn it, I was almost there."

Once I'm through the hypnagogic stage, everything goes very quiet and black. Then the images begin in my mind. Very quickly at first, maybe 10 per second. I watch them and eventually they slow down. One will stop and stay there. That's when I know I'm ready to phase. I will use my dream arm or mind to enter the image (if it hasn't happened automatically). I tend to use touch as my primary entrance. If I can get hold of something, a wall, grass, a tree, then instantly I find myself in the image. It's three-dimensional, full colour and I'm totally lucid. Simply put I've just walked into my own dreamscape. Without a loss of consciousness.

Astral Projection

I use this term if one of two things happen during either OBEs or lucid dreaming. During an OBE, if I go through a door/wall/picture/mirror/portal and find myself somewhere totally different than expected, I deduce I'm in the astral.

During phasing/lucid dreaming, if I remove the 'dream' aspects of my dream (through various techniques) and create a new environment, then I deduce I'm in the astral.

I have found that my astral experiences tend to be fairly 'human' in terms of environment/landscape and population. I've had one or two strange things and met a deceased friend or two, but otherwise they are pretty 'normal' experiences.

Sometimes everything seems so much brighter and cleaner, sometimes people are very tall - up to 12 ft - and sometimes animals are not quite how they should be. I've visited Monroe's 'The Park' and seen Monroe himself a couple of times.

---ooo000ooo---

These days, all the above experience tend to overlap. Which is why I'm more reluctant to separate them. I find myself rocking in a dream (either side-to-side or backwards-forwards) and leap out of my dream body, thereby creating a third body. Or I simply become lucid and go through the nearest wall to escape the existing dream and change environment. To the astral or a more 'public' dreamscape.

I'm of the opinion that lucidity is a very important factor...not necessarily for where you are, but for memory/control and keeping a level head. I once read many years ago over at the Astral Pulse someone said, 'Lucid dreaming is experiencing the dream, whereas non-lucid dreaming is simply remembering it.' That's stayed with me all these years. To actually experience a dream at the time you are dreaming it makes all the difference.

I think there are personal dreamscapes and public dreamscapes. I also think there are scapes/places/mindstates that have different properties. For instance, in some dreams I can easily manifest; in others I am unable to do so, regardless of the level of lucidity.

The whole of consciousness could be deemed under the umbrella of 'astral'. To me, it matters not whether I've been to the 'astral proper' or my own personal dreamscape. As long as I've enjoyed it, had fun, and perhaps learned something, then that will do me.

My very latest thoughts about why I always seem to end up in 'human' environments is that I'm there to show those residents/characters/dreamers that there is more to their reality than what they perceive. I become the 'higher' being (ugh, that doesn't trip off the tongue too well, but I hope you get my drift). Either by becoming holographic or explaining about the nature of a dreamscape. Teaching them to go through walls or doing a bit of magic for them. Flying around them...but also explaining they can fly too. I'm never violent (it's not in my nature) even though I often come across violence. If I'm lucid enough to face it, I always dissipate it with the tricks of my trade.

In essence, I'm quite gritty and down-to-earth, but have a box of tricks up my sleeve. I'm more suited to these human realms.

---ooo000ooo--

Phew. And I haven't even mentioned the Void.

Any questions, feel free to ask. I can only answer for me based on my experiences. I know I keep stressing that, but it's quite important (for me, ha!) to make that clear.

Well the first thing you described that you explored is par on with the RTZ (Real Time Zone) a term I am sure you are very familiar with. Doors and things in odd places, etc. That is definitely the RTZ and you are key-on you used it as a place to explore in the beginning.

I too now believe a Lucid dream or a projection is pretty much the same thing, the only difference is a lot of Lucid dreams I don't remember the exit. At best I will be floating above my body and then fly into the void into the astral. In the beginning all of my projections even the ones achieved through meditation went to very earthly places. A couple times I went to this neon lit planetarium and a weird neon lit funzone that had like huge lettered blocks that kids play with. It was pretty weird and very dark other than the neon lit objects. The planetarium was awesome it was showing me this star system I never saw before and some Indian (Not Native American) guy popped up and was trying to tell me something. He was very passive aggressive and was hiding at first. But other than those in the beginning after phasing into the astral I was in what I believe to be other people's dream zone or the place people go when they first pass away. It was layers of homes or warehouses.

I too often flex my skills in my dreams. When I turn a dream lucid if I am talking to other people usually I will be like "Guess what? I am dreaming and I have crazy powers?" They usually become intrigued and I shoot straight up into the air like rocketman with my hands to my sides and hear them screaming "Come back! Come back!" Sometimes I use telekentic energy I was making a top spin on the ground and even made it life off the ground and the person with me was screaming I scared her so bad. I also fly around people like seeeeeee what I can do? Unfortunately I rarely get to have that kind of fun anymore since I am dealing with an astral hitch-hiker of some sort.
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