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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Non Duality

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  #21  
Old 15-02-2017, 07:30 AM
jimrich jimrich is offline
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Clever Dialogue

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jyotir
Hi jimrich,
As far as I can see, the major difference between Neo Advaita vs. Classical Advaita, is that within the so-called ‘Neo-Advaita’ movement, both exponents and followers possess a predominantly or even exclusively conceptual and intellectual understanding of some principles, that are as often misunderstood in terms of both premise and application, as they are replicated and reinforced in clever dialogue.
Yes, we really do need to watch out for "clever dialogues". LOL.
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  #22  
Old 15-02-2017, 10:31 AM
jimrich jimrich is offline
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Angel1 The higher planes

At the risk of being banned from this forum for "talking back" and/or beating a dead horse, I'd like to make one more effort to have a reasonable and RESPECTFUL discussion with you .... a very special, spiritual or extra-terrestrial being from whatever high plane you live on or come from.
Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness
Jim, anyone here could play that same word game that you're playing, that Tony Parsons also plays, and pick apart almost each little detail, which is another ego trick.
I cannot speak for Tony Parsons but I assure you that I do not play "word games" of "play ego tricks" with you or anyone and it hurts my feelings for you to accuse me of this. I am as sincere as you or anybody else and, if asking you questions hurts or offends you or appears as "picking apart almost every little detail", just say you're hurt but without accusing me of anything or being RUDE. Many folks take simple questions as attacks and insults but I ask questions as RESPECTFULLY as I can and you are free to either answer them, not answer them or just ignore them. They are only questions - not put downs or attacks.
Quote:
For example, I could ask you, from your original post,"Who is this 'my' that you speak of? Who is this 'I' that speaks? Please define this 'I'?"
OK, ask me. Or you could RESPECTFULLY answer my polite questions, like a gentleman, and then we could go from there! I am perfectly fine with sincere, respectful questions so ask and I will respectfully answer those I can and/or ignore those I refuse to answer. I will not come back at you with hostile accusations about word games or ego tricks. Just ask your questions. And also have the dignity to respectfully respond to mine.

Quote:
In fact, anyone could use the very same clever wordplay that you just used on me,
I resent that hostile, disrespectful accusation! I have not once used any "clever word-plays" on you! My questions were all sincere and respectful. If not, quote the offensive item here and then we can examine it together.

Quote:
which Mr. Parsons also likes to use, and use it on him, and he wouldn't be very amused, especially with the heavy over-use of the word "apparent" that he uses.
I don't know what your personal problem is with Mr. Parsons or the word "apparent" but I believe that he has enough self respect to deal with anything you want to throw at him. I'm amazed that a high level being such as you, is SO TOUCHY!

Quote:
I could very fairly ask you, "Who are these 'other programmed folks' that you mentioned, Jim? Why are you pointing to 'others' as being programmed, instead of focusing more purely on your own spiritual responsibility for creating your own beliefs?"
Yes you could "fairly ask" so why don't you? Go ahead, ask me anything you like. Questions do not make me hostile and defensive! I can and will answer what I can with RESPECT and GOOD WILL. And when are you going to anwer any of my questions for you?

Quote:
I could even ask you, "Why do you give 'Tony Parsons' credit for the fact that you can 'now see that you never lost anything?' How is Mr. Parsons responsible for your own openness to be illuminated? Who are these so-called 'new teachers like Tony' that you speak of?" And on and on, you see.
Yes you sure could ask any of them so go ahead and ask! And you "could" answer my questions so WHY DON'T YOU????

Quote:
.. [from another post]..I did answer you. I gave my response. Perhaps not the kind of specific answers that you wanted to those specific questions you asked me, but my response was a perfectly valid answer to your response.
I don't see any of it as a "perfectly valid response" to my questions. It reads like a counter attack to a fight that never was.
You wrote
Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness: Dear brother, we ...
then I wrote Dear brother, who or what is this "we"?
Then you wrote
Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness: Jim, anyone here could play that same word game that you're playing, that Tony Parsons also plays, and pick apart almost each little detail, which is another ego trick.
At no time did you ever again address that one question nor any of the other questions that I asked you in that post [What are these "souls"?, Exactly what is "the soul"?, Please explain: "incarnation", Please define: "illusions, duality, limitation and separation."]
So please show me where and how you ever "gave your response" to any of my 1st sincere questions that are quoted above! Something is terribly WRONG with this discussion and I don't know where to go from here WITHOUT honesty and sincerity!

Quote:
Here's a simple fact: All human language sounds dualistic, even the way Mr. Parsons speaks, which any clever person can point out, so playing intellectual games of pointing out duality in common language is an exercise in philosophical tail-chasing.

Maybe! Or maybe it's one of the ways that us humans use to arrive at knowledge, understanding and GOOD WILL with each other! Almost any concept or behavior can be condemned or praised by anyone and for any reason they choose. So what?

Quote:
It's a losing battle, as all battles are, for there is absolutely no way to hold a conversation with another using verbal language that is completely duality-free or illusion-free, or even opinion-free, for your opening words in this thread are EQUALLY an 'interesting set of opinions' as well, to be fair, bro.
To be fair, bro, 99.99% of everything said in any forum is only someone's (limited) OPINION and what's left over might be a fact......SO WHAT? Humans often talk just to get some attention and have some fun but rarely just to have "duality-free" or "illusion-free" conversations or win battles. You may need to observe us humans a little more to understand us.

You wrote about questions that you "could have asked" but didn't and you did not answer even one of my questions so it looks like we are still at zero with each other EXCEPT that you have taken a very negative stance against me with your accusations and insults so I don't see that we have anything more to say to each other after this. I am a little surprised that what appears to be a more advanced or "higher being" such as you seems to be have expressed so much animosity towards us humans and your obvious jealousy of Tony Parsons in particular. Are you all this small and petty over in your "higher" domain?

Quote:
You're my bro, my mate,
Honestly, the bad way you have treated me does not encourage me to see you as my mate or brother. I think we will need to get a few unsatisfactory things straightened out before I can feel like your "mate or brother". So. let's talk or drop the whole thing. PM me if you wish.........
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Last edited by jimrich : 15-02-2017 at 11:20 AM. Reason: more clarity
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  #23  
Old 15-02-2017, 11:28 AM
God-Like God-Like is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimrich
At the risk of being banned from this forum

I am as sincere as you or anybody else

You see Jim there is no-one here that can be banned .

There is no 'I that is sincere as anyone else .

There is nobody else ..

Do you see where I am going with this ..

Do you honestly believe that a neo teacher will let a police officer arrest them for murder when it is a case of mistaken identity .

It happens all the time doesn't it people getting blamed for something they didn't do .

Is a neo teacher willing to spend a life in prison because they have a belief that no-one is here and what is happening is happening .

I say not .

I doubt very much you would let that happen to you either .


x daz x
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  #24  
Old 15-02-2017, 12:27 PM
django django is offline
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Very simply, neo-advaita can be an immediate and intellectual realisation that there is only Self, alongside a pleasant fantasy of having 'arrived', while advaita recognises the need to actually remove the many distortions and obscurations that exist in the long journey towards Self.
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  #25  
Old 15-02-2017, 03:36 PM
Jyotir Jyotir is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimrich
Yes, we really do need to watch out for "clever dialogues". LOL.

No argument on that from me, or 'we', jimrich.
Especially so regarding the unproductively evasive variety.
Agree wholeheartedly.


~ J
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  #26  
Old 15-02-2017, 09:58 PM
Vinayaka Vinayaka is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by django
Very simply, neo-advaita can be an immediate and intellectual realisation that there is only Self, alongside a pleasant fantasy of having 'arrived', while advaita recognises the need to actually remove the many distortions and obscurations that exist in the long journey towards Self.

I agree with this. If by some strange or lucky chance, one's path does cross with a Self-Realised soul, (they are incredibly rare) there are two things to notice:
1) That soul will be emitting a tremendous perceivable energy
2) They will have to pause and 'come out' from that that they are in order to be aware in the ego/I. So if you refer to them during regular conversation, they won't actually immediately know who you're talking about.
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  #27  
Old 17-02-2017, 07:04 PM
jimrich jimrich is offline
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ON NEO-ADVAITA ~ Jeff Foster

There is a strange new club called ‘Neo-Advaita’. If you are a member of this club, apparently you will find yourself automatically regurgitating certain phrases at people when they are just trying to share their experiences with you – phrases such as “Who knows that? Who says that? There is no doer! There is no choice! That is just a concept! There is no me! You are in your story!”.

You will believe that you have found the ultimate answers to life and you will stop listening deeply to your fellow humans. You may speak and act in cruel ways and then justify your behaviour with the words “There is no choice” or “compassion is just a concept”.

You may even claim to be ‘no-one’, ‘not identified’ or ‘not a person’, and then, to top it all off, you will say you do not believe anything at all, that you have no religion or identity and have gone beyond all stories, and that it is others – not you – who are trapped in their stories (er, even though there are no others to be trapped!)

If anyone disagrees with your preaching, you will fall back on seemingly irrefutable retorts such as “WHO says that?”, “You don’t get it yet!”, or “Everything is impersonal!” When you are really struggling to win an argument, you may even pull out the ultimate get-out clauses: “WHO cares?”… or “There’s still a ‘me’ there!”

You, and your fellow club members, will interpret your own lack of human care and kindness as a sign of how awakened and clear you are.

Oh, my friends, I do speak from experience. I was once a fully-paid-up member of this loveless cult. I left about six or seven years ago, sneaking off in the dead of night, ready and willing to be a living, breathing human being again with a beating heart, and ready and willing to listen deeply to my fellow humans, and the relief was so, so great. Don’t drink the Kool-Aid.

Source: http://www.lifewithoutacentre.com/wr...n-neo-advaita/
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  #28  
Old 18-02-2017, 08:20 AM
God-Like God-Like is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimrich
ON NEO-ADVAITA ~ Jeff Foster

There is a strange new club called ‘Neo-Advaita’. If you are a member of this club, apparently you will find yourself automatically regurgitating certain phrases at people when they are just trying to share their experiences with you – phrases such as “Who knows that? Who says that? There is no doer! There is no choice! That is just a concept! There is no me! You are in your story!”.

You will believe that you have found the ultimate answers to life and you will stop listening deeply to your fellow humans. You may speak and act in cruel ways and then justify your behaviour with the words “There is no choice” or “compassion is just a concept”.

You may even claim to be ‘no-one’, ‘not identified’ or ‘not a person’, and then, to top it all off, you will say you do not believe anything at all, that you have no religion or identity and have gone beyond all stories, and that it is others – not you – who are trapped in their stories (er, even though there are no others to be trapped!)

If anyone disagrees with your preaching, you will fall back on seemingly irrefutable retorts such as “WHO says that?”, “You don’t get it yet!”, or “Everything is impersonal!” When you are really struggling to win an argument, you may even pull out the ultimate get-out clauses: “WHO cares?”… or “There’s still a ‘me’ there!”

You, and your fellow club members, will interpret your own lack of human care and kindness as a sign of how awakened and clear you are.

Oh, my friends, I do speak from experience. I was once a fully-paid-up member of this loveless cult. I left about six or seven years ago, sneaking off in the dead of night, ready and willing to be a living, breathing human being again with a beating heart, and ready and willing to listen deeply to my fellow humans, and the relief was so, so great. Don’t drink the Kool-Aid.

Source: http://www.lifewithoutacentre.com/wr...n-neo-advaita/

I like J.F. I saw a clip of him once on a t.v. show for alternative views . Back in the day Jeff was a hard core non dualist and he carried on like one of the neo robots .

He eventually did a 180 degree u-turn and said he could no longer deny the unique jeffness .

I like a man that can stand up and make such a u-turn .

I have a few chats with individuals that are hardcore non dualists and they speak just like jeff once did ..

They just haven't owned up to their own jeffness yet and are living in a bubble of denial and intellectual claptrap .

They don't even live by example, they pick and choose a self identity when it suits . It's very odd .



x daz x
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  #29  
Old 18-02-2017, 04:46 PM
7luminaries 7luminaries is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by django
Very simply, neo-advaita can be an immediate and intellectual realisation that there is only Self, alongside a pleasant fantasy of having 'arrived', while advaita recognises the need to actually remove the many distortions and obscurations that exist in the long journey towards Self.

LOL.... And a boring one, too...hahaha

Peace & blessings,
7L
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Here we must be unafraid of what is difficult.

For all living beings in nature must unfold in their particular way

and become themselves despite all opposition.

-- Rainer Maria Rilke
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  #30  
Old 18-02-2017, 05:04 PM
7luminaries 7luminaries is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimrich
ON NEO-ADVAITA ~ Jeff Foster

There is a strange new club called ‘Neo-Advaita’. If you are a member of this club, apparently you will find yourself automatically regurgitating certain phrases at people when they are just trying to share their experiences with you – phrases such as “Who knows that? Who says that? There is no doer! There is no choice! That is just a concept! There is no me! You are in your story!”.

You will believe that you have found the ultimate answers to life and you will stop listening deeply to your fellow humans.

You may speak and act in cruel ways and then justify your behaviour with the words
“There is no choice” or “compassion is just a concept”
.


You may even claim to be ‘no-one’, ‘not identified’ or ‘not a person’, and then, to top it all off, you will say you do not believe anything at all, that you have no religion or identity and have gone beyond all stories, and that it is others – not you – who are trapped in their stories (er, even though there are no others to be trapped!)

If anyone disagrees with your preaching, you will fall back on seemingly irrefutable retorts such as “WHO says that?”, “You don’t get it yet!”, or “Everything is impersonal!” When you are really struggling to win an argument, you may even pull out the ultimate get-out clauses: “WHO cares?”… or “There’s still a ‘me’ there!”

You, and your fellow club members, will interpret your own lack of human care and kindness as a sign of how awakened and clear you are.


Oh, my friends, I do speak from experience. I was once a fully-paid-up member of this loveless cult. I left about six or seven years ago, sneaking off in the dead of night, ready and willing to be a living, breathing human being again with a beating heart, and ready and willing to listen deeply to my fellow humans, and the relief was so, so great. Don’t drink the Kool-Aid.

Source: http://www.lifewithoutacentre.com/wr...n-neo-advaita/

Jim, I have to say I was moved when I read your story and I am so glad for you that you are away from that. And hopefully now have folks in your life who love and accept you as you are, and who seek & support your highest good equally to their own. After all, that is what it's all about

You have also performed a public service for many of us, and I don't mean just warning folks of the destructive and cult-like nature of this neo-advaita group. To say this is important, is an understatement of the highest magnitude. Because I also mean that there are many of us who have known and loved folks who clearly were influenced by this sort of thinking.

And I must say, as a form of misdirection or denial, it no doubt appeals strongly to some of the most emotionally & spiritually traumatised folks. Those who are most vulnerable emotionally and/or spiritually, and those who are least likely to benefit from its dubious benefits, whilst being most likely to do great harm to all those around them (to fam & friends, partners, spouses, or children). I.e., those around them whom they'd unwittingly but quite cruelly dehumanised as non-entities in order to fit into their strange belief system.

Thanks again,
and peace & blessings
7L
__________________
Bound by conventions, people tend to reach for what is easy.

Here we must be unafraid of what is difficult.

For all living beings in nature must unfold in their particular way

and become themselves despite all opposition.

-- Rainer Maria Rilke
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