Debate with Buddhism Teacher

[CSEe]

Hi , for more than 10 years , I have invited hundreds if not thousand of Buddhism teacher to debate with me regards to Buddhism for my own learning process but sadly not many have really of the interest .......I choose the word " debate" not learning or discussion as I have reasons to say that most if not all Buddhism Teacher that have been communicating with me just want to teach me .........to me,everyone and everything is my teacher , I will learn without asking someone to creates emotion to teach me... so if you are a Buddhism teacher , currently teaching others Buddhism ...lets debate .
Thanks
CSEe

[sky]

Originally Posted by CSEe

Hi , for more than 10 years , I have invited hundreds if not thousand of Buddhism teacher to debate with me regards to Buddhism for my own learning process but sadly not many have really of the interest .......I choose the word " debate" not learning or discussion as I have reasons to say that most if not all Buddhism Teacher that have been communicating with me just want to teach me .........to me,everyone and everything is my teacher , I will learn without asking someone to creates emotion to teach me... so if you are a Buddhism teacher , currently teaching others Buddhism ...lets debate .
Thanks
CSEe

Mybe it's your Karma that has you attached to the need for a debate CSEe. Just enjoy the Buddhas teachings and the wisdom you have gained from following the Dharma

[CSEe]

Originally Posted by sky123

Mybe it's your Karma that has you attached to the need for a debate CSEe. Just enjoy the Buddhas teachings and the wisdom you have gained from following the Dharma

Hi sky123..........perhaps is always me ......" the need" as you mentioned no longer in me as I am currently of mind of constant learning , learning no longer from desire to discover but is a condition readiness of change ............

Do you wish to debate on what is " wisdom" ?

[sky]

Originally Posted by CSEe

Hi sky123..........perhaps is always me ......" the need" as you mentioned no longer in me as I am currently of mind of constant learning , learning no longer from desire to discover but is a condition readiness of change ............

Do you wish to debate on what is " wisdom" ?

Wisdom to me is,
Sensible thinking. Understanding through experience which is what the Buddha taught. Not to just believe or have blind faith is his words only but to look inside yourself to find your own path.

[CSEe]

Originally Posted by sky123

Wisdom to me is,
Sensible thinking. Understanding through experience which is what the Buddha taught. Not to just believe or have blind faith is his words only but to look inside yourself to find your own path.

If one refer to knowledge , yes I of the opinion that is easy to agree with you ......but do you think Buddhism is limited to human knowledge ?
In my current mind , knowledge is information that feed to us by our parent , by our society , by a system of social education etc .....is merely information at a particular moment ........but knowledge itself is of constant change ....in our current human culture , for perhaps thousands of years human culture had accepted knowledge is the basis of judgement .......and human continue filling their mind with knowledge and as such human has became the knowledge itself ........

Dear sky123 , if you take out all your knowledge from your mind , take out all the thing you know ....what is there left in your mind ?????????
If you take out all the knowledge from your mind , there is only emotion left in the mind ....there is only desire / love / fear / hate / worry / greed etc ... and in my current mind , that emotion is you .....and Buddhism is the natural process realizing emotion , realizing we are the emotion...realizing the mind itself instead of filling in the mind ...........

So what is wisdom in my current mind ?
As one awaken to own existence and the cause of his existence , one realized that he is the mind ... mind is room for emotion ....he realized he is emotion , he is love , he is desire /hate / anger etc .....and Buddhism is the natural process of all existence travelling naturally back into original state before existence ...a state of nothingness - The Buddha , so he realized he is constantly in Buddhism ....he realized he is always same as any living or non-living travelling in a natural process back into a common state of nothingness ......as he travel into this path , he no longer holding on to the mind , no longer having emotion to fill the mind with emotion or knowledge but instead just living with the mind .......as he journey , all his emotion , all his love / desire / greed / fear etc will naturally and gradually decreases / reducing ..........and he no longer holding on special emotion for any selective being ,he treat all living or non-living with same emotion as he realize nothing is own by him , nothing is belong to him even "his" body is never belong to him .......and as he travel , all emotion will just forgotten and the empty "room" in the mind to me is wisdom ....so in my current mind of Buddhism , wisdom is a condition of mind being less emotion .... a condition of less love , less desire , less greed , less fear etc not something human gain from knowledge ..................

[RyanWind]

Originally Posted by CSEe

one realized that he is the mind ... mind is room for emotion ....he realized he is emotion , he is love , he is desire /hate / anger etc

If you realize something you know something.

Originally Posted by CSEe

The Buddha ..., he no longer holding on to the mind...

He knows to no longer hold on to the mind.

Originally Posted by CSEe

he realize nothing is own by him , nothing is belong to him even "his" body is never belong to him .......and as he travel , all emotion will just forgotten and the empty "room" in the mind to me is wisdom ....so in my current mind of Buddhism , wisdom is a condition of mind being less emotion .... a condition of less love , less desire , less greed , less fear etc not something human gain from knowledge ..................

To know to let go is knowledge. So human gain is from knowledge. Wisdom is from self-knowledge. Letting go of knowledge means you know to let go.

[CSEe]

Originally Posted by RyanWind

[/color]
you sad I quote " If you realize something you know something. " Un-quote
hi RyanWind .....in my current mind , realization is not knowledge , is not something we know or something we can seek to know and even is something we will never know ...that is Buddhism . Buddhism to me currently is a natural process of realization .......it seems to me your version of realization is very much connected ...to me , knowledge is just a tiny piece of sand in the ocean .....realization is way too far from merely knowledge ......

You said ' He knows to no longer hold on to the mind." Un-quote
Yes , if only one still entertaining emotion and choose to do so ......if one constantly direct the mind into creation of more mind , yes one do have the choice ...but perhaps as one awaken to Buddhism , one realize " no option" , one just living with the mind without knowing he never hold the mind ....he never hold the mind as he forgotten of holding on to the mind not because he prefer not to hold the mind .... as one awaken to Buddhism , the path is clear without option to choose .



You said "To know to let go is knowledge. So human gain is from knowledge." Un-quote

Dear Ryanwind ... sorry in advance , I stand to be corrected ,your version of realization is knowledge based......it seems to me your realization is something one could achieve from knowledge .....that is common human culture ....perhaps Buddhism is realization of the emotion itself not knowledge ......just ask yourself , if you take out all your knowledge in your mind what left in your mind ?????? Perhaps there is only emotion left ... that is you ...you are the emotion .....so Buddhism is realization of the emotion not determination of knowledge . So Buddhism in my current mind , Buddhism is not something we know or something we could learn to know even is something we will never know.............



Wisdom is from self-knowledge. Letting go of knowledge means you know to let go.

Yes your version of wisdom is as what human knows ...perhaps is as what explained in books .....but we are now trying to be closer to Buddhism ...is your version of wisdom out of your realization ?

[RyanWind]

Originally Posted by CSEe

Yes your version of wisdom is as what human knows ...perhaps is as what explained in books .....but we are now trying to be closer to Buddhism ...is your version of wisdom out of your realization ?

Some of my knowledge is from realization, self observation and experience yes. Knowledge can also be from conditioning or from books or from culture, religion, your parents etc. So knowledge can be of a higher or lower nature. Really, everyone has both kinds of knowledge in them. I would say a wise person can tell the difference.

Book knowledge is not necessarily inferior to realization. It's inferior if it is only an idea. But if book knowledge is experienced, and known to be true, then it too is a realization. It's applied knowledge. It's knowledge that represents something you have experienced and know to be true.

Wisdom is not an on or off switch. Everyone is wise about something. But Buddhism is about wisdom about how to end self-caused suffering. It is knowledge about the self. The only place you can see the truth of self based knowledge is in self observation and self-realization. The result is higher knowledge, not no knowledge. Zen masters know a great deal. They know to let go of the lower forms of knowledge. The knowledge that is not based on reality, the knowledge that has not been shown to be true through experience and realization.

Higher awareness and the ability to see more sides to a question leads to higher knowledge. There is a knowing or knowledge that lives in the core of a being and a knowledge that comes from the habitual and mechanical brain. Humans are said to have two selves. One is a product of the brain and memory and another is from the eternal self. These two selves join at birth and separate at death. I would guess both selves can contain knowledge. This would explain the difference between the two types of knowledge.

[CSEe]

Originally Posted by RyanWind

Some of my knowledge is from realization, self observation and experience yes. Knowledge can also be from conditioning or from books or from culture, religion, your parents etc. So knowledge can be of a higher or lower nature. Really, everyone has both kinds of knowledge in them. I would say a wise person can tell the difference.

Book knowledge is not necessarily inferior to realization. It's inferior if it is only an idea. But if book knowledge is experienced, and known to be true, then it too is a realization. It's applied knowledge. It's knowledge that represents something you have experienced and know to be true.

Wisdom is not an on or off switch. Everyone is wise about something. But Buddhism is about wisdom about how to end self-caused suffering. It is knowledge about the self. The only place you can see the truth of self based knowledge is in self observation and self-realization. The result is higher knowledge, not no knowledge. Zen masters know a great deal. They know to let go of the lower forms of knowledge. The knowledge that is not based on reality, the knowledge that has not been shown to be true through experience and realization.

Higher awareness and the ability to see more sides to a question leads to higher knowledge. There is a knowing or knowledge that lives in the core of a being and a knowledge that comes from the habitual and mechanical brain. Humans are said to have two selves. One is a product of the brain and memory and another is from the eternal self. These two selves join at birth and separate at death. I would guess both selves can contain knowledge. This would explain the difference between the two types of knowledge.

Hi RyanWind ...sorry in advance , if you read your writing over and over again .....perhaps you realize that is the knowledge that you hold .....is something you created a faith of what is the knowledge and what wisdom should be .........perhaps that is the opposite of my current mind of Buddhism . In my current mind , as one awaken to emotion , one realize that knowledge is just like wind blowing to the face but never stay .....one realize knowledge is just information that reflects the desire , the fear , the worry , the love ...knowledge is just a condition of realization ...like a mirror reflecting emotion that cause your existence....Buddhism is the natural process realizing the emotion not stopping and focusing on the condition ......

Yes , I do agree with you that Buddhism Teachers knows a lot ....and because they believe they knows a lot perhaps give them a reason to teach others .... but is Buddhism a form of knowledge ? In my current mind , Buddhism teachers have mis-lead millions of people into accepting Buddhism is something one could learn ... and turning Buddhism into part of human culture .............

Dear sir , I am not here to learn about realization or seeking knowledge of what Buddhism should be ....I am here as that is my current condition of exploration of mind .....learning no longer out of desire but is a condition of mind readiness of change .

[VinceField]

CSEe

An important aspect of Buddhism is letting go of our personal stories and identifications. You seem to have yours firmly in place. A "thicket of views" if you will.