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08-04-2018, 09:39 AM
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Ascender
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 834
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The Engaged Zen Foundation certainly has high ideals & principles
Our Mission
Our experience working in prisons throughout the United States since 1992 has compelled us to focus the Engaged Zen Foundation's efforts on the complete circle of human rights imperatives.
We have encountered appalling conditions and witnessed brutal treatment, even murder, of prisoners. The proliferation of Draconian, technology driven, sensory deprivation control units and super high security prisons is of paramount concern. We have witnessed first hand the largely racially defined classism, dehumanization, brutality, rape, torture, oppression, virtual slavery and the eurocentric power-over dynamic that drives the prison industrial complex, the law enforcement community and the judicial system.
We have seen first hand, death by incarceration, institutionalized oppression, absurd mandatory drug law sentences, "three strikes" laws, and we have examined the effects of internalized oppression on prisoners, their families and society as a whole. The horrendous conditions we have encountered time and time again demand the foundation take a stand on moral and ethical grounds in firm opposition to these dis-eased approaches that are destroying countless lives, families and communities.
EZF is inexorably committed to the abolition of punitive incarceration in any form, the dismantling of the prison industrial complex, and the adoption of alternative, restorative, methods of dealing with what is colloquially known as "criminal justice."
Kobutsu Malone
www.engaged-zen.org/mission.html
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08-04-2018, 09:53 AM
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Master
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: England
Posts: 1,085
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Being
EZF is inexorably committed to the abolition of punitive incarceration in any form, the dismantling of the prison industrial complex, and the adoption of alternative, restorative, methods of dealing with what is colloquially known as "criminal justice."
Kobutsu Malone
www.engaged-zen.org/mission.html
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Engaged Zen?
Very western. ..
Send violent criminals into exile or let them fight for their countries.
We used to send ours to Australia
__________________
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"I am your creation.
Now, as before - you criticise your own work."
- Legacy Of Kain
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08-04-2018, 10:07 AM
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Ascender
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 834
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raziel
Engaged Zen?
Very western. ..
Send violent criminals into exile or let them fight for their countries.
We used to send ours to Australia
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How very Enlightened, Civilised & Compassionate of you.
At least the author is practising what he preaches.
Drugs, Crime, Violence & Mental Health -
80% or more of the prison population suffer with serious mental health difficulties.
The Global 'Civilisation' / System / Society is Violent. The media is violent - there is a lot of verbal & emotional ignorance, lies, half truths, propaganda, hatred & violence within the media, which spills out into the World, in hate, divisions, arguments, conflicts & Wars. People are divided along lines of social & economic status / class / generation & age, race & ethnicity, nationalism, religion, politics, sex & all kinds of other divisions & different belief systems.
As well as systemic violence the general society is violent - there are all kinds of abuses, conflicts & dysfunctionality within society, within family & local social groups / society as well wider social systems.
Many people that have mental health difficulties have at one time or another & in various ways suffered various forms of systemic violence, psychological, emotional & / or physical abuse, trauma & losses.
Many people can be caught up in dysfunctional familial / peer group & wider social dysfunction, that can be very hard to get away from.
It is very hard & complex for some people if they are caught up within certain circumstances related to wider areas of the drug / criminal world.
over 50% of what comes under diagnosed mental health conditions / difficulties involves in some way dual diagnosis issues (addiction / substance misuse & mental illness [psychological & emotional distress]) - greatly complicated by all the different controversies, perspectives, opinions, arguments & debates on the use of prescribed medications & biomedical psychiatric / pharmacological Industry.
Many people due to the complexities, legality & implications of many areas, & the way the current society / system operates are Not able to openly discuss everything involved in their lives & difficulties, especially concerning certain areas.
A lot of areas medically, socially & criminally are compartmentalised. A lot of more severe cases of people suffering serious mental health difficulties end up in dire social situations / circumstances, on the streets & within the long stay psychiatric & criminal justice system.
Very little in the way of appropriate psychological / social understanding, help & support is given to some demographics of people.
These are areas also beset with a whole range of wildly varying different understandings, opinions, politics, ideologies, polemics, attitudes & approaches to it all.
Where are all the 'spiritual' people within all this? Are they all overflowing with non-judgemental, genuinely non-violent love & compassion, humble, & in complete service to all those suffering & in need, embodying kindness, gentleness & peace to all people. The proof of spirituality is in the pudding, the behaviour & actions of people. There is Nothing spiritual about most people who claim to be spiritual.
The stark reality - none of you will escape the Truth of who you really are & what you have done on the other side, regardless of all the words in the World.
i am reminded of Matthew 25:31–46.
The cited book says it all - Advanced & Civilised? There is Nothing genuinely advanced or civilised about any of it - LOL - it's a Cosmic Joke.
A People's History of the United States
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Peop..._United_States
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08-04-2018, 10:36 AM
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Master
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: England
Posts: 1,085
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Being
How very Enlightened, Civilised & Compassionate of you.
At least the author is practising what he preaches.
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It was a semi-jovial comment.
Talking of preachy sheesh so is all of that info that you just so happened to have to hand.
Mental health is a huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge bracket & especially in America it's very easy to self diagnose, blame brain chemistry or be fobbed off with meds.
Even if there are reasons for someone being a violent sexual offender for example - the steps it took to get there, the fabric of those reasonings are not the fault or even the responsibility of the school children or elderly in the surrounding area.
You can't simply trust them to integrate back into society.
Religion itself promotes punishment - whilst it can be considered harsh there are always going to be folks that simply want to take something from others when the opportunity arises.
Thug culture is a huge part of Americas problems - it became cool to emulate pimps & gangsters so more & more kids .. became them.
These communities were not this way in the 70's & 80's so where did it come from?
You can't blame away everything on mental health. Just as within spirituality the fake claimants muddy the water & take the focus away from the genuine.
I really don't understand how making excuses for people abusing systems set up to help those in need is actually helping anyone?
The old timers swore by national service - whilst I don't necessarily agree I'd rather see people learn respect - self & otherwise - than ninny & mollycoddle those who are secretly smirking that they "got away with it" again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Being
There is Nothing spiritual about most people who claim to be spiritual.
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Spirituality is not a reality based thing - it's believing in the unproven.
Anything remotely fantastical always conveniently happened way into the past whereby it can't be looked at objectively - especially once intertwined with culture.
I always promote going & doing good in the world - my suggestions are pretty much ALWAYS volunteering as I have witnessed countless times what an amazing & beneficial thing it can be to everyone involved.
Good intention is not always going to end in good results - it's wise to be aware of things before diving headlong into things that might have severe consequences such as dealing with criminal minds.
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__________________
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"I am your creation.
Now, as before - you criticise your own work."
- Legacy Of Kain
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08-04-2018, 10:57 AM
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Ascender
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 834
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raziel
Talking of preachy sheesh so is all of that info that you just so happened to have to hand.
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i wrote it out this morning. It's an area that i feel passionate about.
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Mental health is a huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge bracket & especially in America it's very easy to self diagnose, blame brain chemistry or be fobbed off with meds.
Even if there are reasons for someone being a violent sexual offender for example - the steps it took to get there, the fabric of those reasonings are not the fault or even the responsibility of the school children or elderly in the surrounding area.
You can't simply trust them to integrate back into society.
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i fully agree - it is highly nuanced areas. The current system however isn't working around it all. 80% or more of it all is imo primarily a systemic issue. The biomedical model; primary biomedical psychiatric / pharmacological Industry / Approach has utterly failed.
Body, Mind, Spirit & Environment.
1) Physiological, Biologic, Brain Developmental, Epigenetic, Brain Plasticity. Would include drug use/medications, diet & other impactors on physiology/biology. (biomedical Models)
2) Psychological, Emotional, & the bodies energetic systems. (Psychological Models)
3) Social, Environmental, Inter-Personal/Relational, Familial, Life Experiences. Stress/Trauma - 'What has happened to you?' (Social Models)
4) Spiritual/Trans-Personal, Past life/Karmic. Life Lessons, Soul Plan. Spirit Attachment. (Spiritual/Transpersonal Models)
All areas are interrelated - Bio/Psycho/Social/Spirit Model. Covering the 4 main areas of Life.
Logically - What can be considered to come under -
Spiritual / Soul / Transpersonal / Religion - Effects Biology, Psychology & Sociology.
Biology - Effects Psychology / Emotions, Sociology & what can be interpreted as spiritual / transpersonal experience.
Psychology - Effects Biology, Sociology & Spirituality.
Sociology - Effects Biology, Psychology & Spirituality.
This has been fully known for over 400 years within the Western Scientific / Medical areas & always been known by all other cultures / civilisations & people.
The logical truth of all these areas is that everything is part of one reality & best understood as integrated; integral holistic, & our systems / society should reflect this fact - which it doesn't.
Of course there are different individual weightings between biological, psychogenic (psychological / emotional / inner World of thoughts, feelings, emotions & experience), sociology / relational / environmental & what comes under the soul / spiritual / transpersonal. & there are ranges that logically cover areas of what is more mental illness, spiritual crisis / emergence / emergency & what is differential (mental illness & spiritual crisis).
But the point is that the human Being has an immense capacity to heal & make progress. There are myriad avenues of healing & spiritual practise available to us.
Of course severity of an underlying condition, & overall difficulty of circumstances does impact things - But there is Nothing to stop anyone following a discipled & dedicated spiritual / healing path & practise if that is what they choose to follow. We have free will & free choice.
Quote:
These communities were not this way in the 70's & 80's so where did it come from?
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As above - 80% of it all i do see as systemic.
Quote:
You can't blame away everything on mental health. Just as within spirituality the fake claimants muddy the water & take the focus away from the genuine.
I really don't understand how making excuses for people abusing systems set up to help those in need is actually helping anyone?
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i haven't blamed everything on mental health & i know that statistically it is only 3% of the Global population that comes under a genuinely severe & diagnosable severe mental illness. With schizophrenia; classical madness it is 'only' 0.7% to 1% of the population. But those people / demographics are Not to be denied & are currently amongst some of the worst treated people within 'Western' society.
On a far broader level a lot of areas / social issues are mental health related.
Quote:
Good intention is not always going to end in good results - it's wise to be aware of things before diving headlong into things that might have severe consequences such as dealing with criminal minds.
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Not really what i said or was getting at.
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08-04-2018, 11:23 AM
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Ascender
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 834
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raziel
Talking of preachy sheesh so is all of that info that you just so happened to have to hand.
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i have maintained this thread on here on integral / holistic understandings & approaches to schizophrenia -
http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/sh...ad.php?t=85112
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08-04-2018, 11:56 AM
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Master
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: England
Posts: 1,085
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Being
Not really what i said or was getting at.
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No it's all good, I appreciate a natural passion as opposed to a copy & paste one.
My mention of good intentions was just speaking generally in regards to dealing with prisoners or criminals - often people think that they just need saving or love but its far, far darker & complex which you have alluded to in further comments.
I try to run poster comments through the SJW scanner - I appreciate those who strive to do good but often those SJW's tend to just want things to change for their own benefit.
I totally support what it is that you are saying & applaud it.
Often passion such as yours becomes co-opted on the forum so I wanted to make sure that this was from the heart & not just a fashionable mantra.
The only way to test it is to poke for further clarification.
I don't have any authority or right to do this necessarily but for the sake of discussing the truly spiritual I test the fences - I often run into fraudulent hypocrites which becomes disheartening.
Apologies if you felt misrepresented - that was not the intent.
~
Specifically back on track now have you actually seen a workable solution to all of this?
If we don't know better, then we don't know better - have you seen anything that looks feasible?
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__________________
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"I am your creation.
Now, as before - you criticise your own work."
- Legacy Of Kain
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08-04-2018, 12:24 PM
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Ascender
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 834
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raziel
If we don't know better, then we don't know better - have you seen anything that looks feasible?
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i understand some of the complexities & difficulties within the current realities of this 'civilisation'. There may Not be any 'perfect' answer to it all. i do however have a working conclusion that things are best seen in many ways as systemic, & should be addressed as such. i do see far better proposed systemic alternatives, but such alternatives would need full cooperation of all of humanity, which is very far from the case. i wonder how everything & this current system / 'civilisation' can be sustained indefinitely?
With regards to the medical system / social ills, i would like to see in principle / model at least fully integrated health care systems.
On a personal level, beyond social activism (letters / campaigning & such) & within my own circles, what can i really do about it all? i can't change this World / society / system / 'civilisation' & other people.
i have a dedicated & disciplined spiritual practice & more & more i leave the World alone. i try my best to practice certain spiritual practices, principles & ideals, to focus on my own learning, progress & experience, but what else is there i can do? Very little as far as i can see with it all, & nor is it my responsibility to try & sort it all out, & it just is what it is, as it is - this planet is a small blue speck within the incomprehensible vastness of the Cosmos / Existence, & i tend to view it all simply as that more & more. It's Not my prerogative to really try & do something about it all anymore, other than express my own personal opinion on what i think on it all.
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08-04-2018, 01:13 PM
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Ascender
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 834
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raziel
Spirituality is not a reality based thing - it's believing in the unproven.
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As with everything, so much i feel depends on interpretation.
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08-04-2018, 02:30 PM
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Master
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: England
Posts: 1,085
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Being
As with everything, so much i feel depends on interpretation.
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Would you be prepared to elaborate a little further?
__________________
.
"I am your creation.
Now, as before - you criticise your own work."
- Legacy Of Kain
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