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  #91  
Old 23-02-2020, 02:15 PM
JustASimpleGuy JustASimpleGuy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by God-Like
Diversity, individuality and opposites can be seen as part of maya’s influence but again that is just another speculation had that is subjective .

For myself, I have realised what I AM / what we are and I don't see the mind or individuality as being part of maya or as an illusion ..


x daz x

I suppose it's all academic and my impression or intuition is maya is what the Advaitists say it is, with the power to project and power to veil. Is maya the quantum foam, with virtual particles popping into and out of 'existence' and occasionally experiencing a phase transition resulting in a Big Bang? Would that be maya's power to project? And once the initial transition subsides, cools, attains lower energy levels and splits into multiple forces (gravity, electromagnetism, nuclear strong & weak forces) is that maya's power to veil?

That's my impression of "illusion" and "unreal". So yeah, it's darned real but not just real enough compared to the Absolute.

Concerning First Cause and the Absolute...

I'm particularly fond of the 'absolutely simple' part.

https://strangenotions.com/if-everyt...at-caused-god/

"Accordingly, when they arrive at God via a First Cause argument, there is no inconsistency, no sudden abandonment of the very premise that got the argument going. Rather, the argument is that the only way to terminate a regress of actualizers of potentials is by reference to something which is pure actuality, devoid of potentiality, and thus without anything that needs to be, or even could be, actualized; or it is that a regress of causes of composed things can be terminated only by something which is absolutely simple or non-composite, and thus without any parts whose combination needs to be, or indeed could have been, caused by anything; or that the only way to terminate a regress of things that cause other things to participate in being is by reference to that which just is being itself rather than something which merely has or participates in being, and thus something which neither needs, nor could have had, a cause of its own being; or that the only way to terminate a regress of causes of contingent things is by reference to something absolutely necessary, which by virtue of its absolute necessity need not have, and could not have, had something impart existence to it; and so forth."
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  #92  
Old 27-02-2020, 07:43 AM
Phaelyn Phaelyn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy
Vivekananda used the metaphor of polishing a mirror to describe one's spiritual practice. The more polished the mirror, the greater degree it manifests, reflects or is illumined by unmanifested consciousness/awareness. So a rock is a dull mirror, a tree more polished, an animal still more polished and man much more polished.
The dust in that metaphor is a human merged consciousness focusing on and experiencing conceptual delusional reality as opposed to "what actually is" before it is related to through the conceptual. The rock is not alive, therefore not conscious or aware, the tree is not able to focus on created conceptual reality as it does not have a brain to make such stuff, so a tree has no dust and perceives directly "with a dust free mirror" but obviously the consciousness of a tree is not the consciousness that merges with a human body and mind, so what the tree is aware of is related to the structure of the tree consciousness itself and the aspects or qualities it contains as well of potential senses in the organism of the tree, chemical, root structures, leaves etc.

Trees and plants are actually aware of things humans are not but then their potential of understanding is limited by their design. Brains and brain size and brain DNA is related to how much intelligence one has and intelligence is related to how much one can understand or be aware of. So while a tree can "know" or be aware of a pest eating it's leaves or roots, and therefore react with chemicals to repel such pests, and can also alert other plants in the area by chemicals released in the wind or through connected root structures, it cannot know the origins of the pests as a human can or how to eradicate or deal with them in advanced ways.

Likewise, animals, depending on brain size and structure, may not be able to conceptualize, (great apes and dolphins can for example) so may not have the ability to create "dust" but like plants, freedom in choosing what they are aware of is limited by their design. It is more of an automatic process as changes in perception "rotate" according to their programming and internal and external factors. Dogs and cats go though different moods and emotions as humans do, though they live much more in the moment as thought as reality is not a process in their brains. Most lower animals are also free of "dust" in this regard. The most intelligent animals have dust but it does not become dominant in them as it can in humans.

The reality is humans are intentionally designed to have conceptual human created content dominate the organism and consciousness. To have the created dust be the bright shiny object that attracts the attention. The reason for this is the human incarnation exists to entice the consciousness to develop more awareness as a means to escape this unpleasant conflict filled experience.
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  #93  
Old 27-02-2020, 09:55 AM
BigJohn BigJohn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy
"Accordingly, when they arrive at God via a First Cause argument, there is no inconsistency, no sudden abandonment of the very premise that got the argument going. Rather, the argument is that the only way to terminate a regress of actualizers of potentials is by reference to something which is pure actuality, devoid of potentiality, and thus without anything that needs to be, or even could be, actualized; or it is that a regress of causes of composed things can be terminated only by something which is absolutely simple or non-composite, and thus without any parts whose combination needs to be, or indeed could have been, caused by anything; or that the only way to terminate a regress of things that cause other things to participate in being is by reference to that which just is being itself rather than something which merely has or participates in being, and thus something which neither needs, nor could have had, a cause of its own being; or that the only way to terminate a regress of causes of contingent things is by reference to something absolutely necessary, which by virtue of its absolute necessity need not have, and could not have, had something impart existence to it; and so forth."

The First Cause Argument implies the Universe had a beginning and that beginning was God. This leads us to the Teleological Argument which implies a creation based on deliberate designs as reflected in the natural World. These Arguments do seem to imply that of the natural laws we know about, there might be more which would help us to 'complete the picture'.
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  #94  
Old 27-02-2020, 02:34 PM
Phaelyn Phaelyn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy
https://iai.tv/articles/consciousnes...lved-auid-1302

"In other words, what the author calls the ‘functions of consciousness’ aren’t the cognitive tasks performed by consciousness, but simply those visible to consciousness—i.e. reportable through conscious introspection. Why call these tasks the ‘functions of consciousness’ if they aren’t what consciousness does, but merely what it sees?"

Sounds a lot like observing or witnessing.

"Phenomenal consciousness cannot have evolved. It can only have been there from the beginning as an intrinsic, irreducible fact of nature."

Body-mind - Biological machine with no free will and not the seat of consciousness.

Consciousness - Manifested or reflected as mind (and everything else).

I skimmed that article and have a few thoughts on it's content. One is science has already dis-proved natural selection or evolution as the only or primary mechanism in the creation or appearance of living things based on modern mathematics. I won't go into the specifics, but basically intelligent design is inherently obvious in both the DNA and time lines of the appearance/existence of new life forms. Because of not only the speed at which new forms appeared, and the probability of certain DNA combinations based on mathematical probabilities, some intelligent force had to order or cause/design such things.

But "intelligent design" in consciousness is a sticky question as we have no idea what consciousness actually is, as science defines it by it's functions and not it's substance or structures. It is somehow present in living things, but what it is or how it comes to be is still unknown. Add in the fact that there is a lot of evidence that it works through the brain but also is independent from it, makes it even more hard to pin down as we have no means to perceive or study anything we can't put under a microscope or perceive through some other machine or mechanism. We simply have no means or method to perceive what consciousness is, only what it does. And ironically, what it does is perceives.

As far as the question, did conspicuousness evolve?, that depends what we mean by evolve. Consciousness can differ in awareness, both in content and quantitatively, as in, how much is known or seen or understood in any particular moment. There is always the potential for consciousness to be aware of more or understand more or to see or perceive things differently. Consciousness also is the ultimate cause or director or force behind such potentials manifesting. So consciousness does "learn" or evolve through the contemplation of or reflection on, what it is perceiving based on an ever growing base of understanding of how it is related to it's perception and how this perception is related to experience. Also, one cannot ignore the fact none of this happens in a vacuum. Consciousness, whether or not it arises out of this body and brain and it's physical forms or has it's source as an non-physical independent entity (when the human body dies), that fact is that now it is (I am) clearly merged with this body and it's brain in a very complex way. So all these mechanisms of evolution or learning and potentials takes place within this body and it's mind/brain and perception itself originates though this bodies sense organs, interpreted and presented to us in some form by the brain.

So that article is attempting to define a source for consciousness other than "natural selection" and natural selection has already been disproven by modern science and mathematics. The fact consciousness can be aware of and non-identified with the content of the brain tells me consciousness and the brain cannot have the same source or be of the same substance. Also, since "we" or consciousness are not aware of the brains sub-conscious functions, it seems obvious to me we are merged not only with something very different from ourselves, but also something vastly at a higher level of manufactured intelligence. In other words, we are merged with a "super computer" designed by an intelligence vastly higher than ours. It presents manufactured content to us, which we perceive, and then what we are and have, awareness, attempts to affect and understand how we play a role in what we experience and perceive.

We, consciousness, creates and projects reality inward and outward, and awareness allows us to play a greater and greater role in what this created content "is" as far as a potential perception and experience. Merged with this human body and it's mind is a micro example of what we do eternally out of the body. Create and "order" what exists according to our will based on what is available as far as understanding and awareness. Then also, at higher levels of intelligence and awareness, become involved in the creation of "what is or exists" as well. We are basically an energy that is becoming more and more aware of what exists and then through this increasing awareness, we have more of an effect on how what exists is manipulated to produce experience and particular perceptions. What is, is ordered through our intelligence and awareness, and also made into forms according to our will. Everything that exists was ordered into existence through "us" or beings exactly just like us, just more highly evolved and in a parallel non-physical dimension. But then we won't really be aware of how evolved we are until we leave this body and it's brain. This body and brain tends to be able to dampen or mask what we actually are. Also, consciousness can divide itself so what is merged with a particular life form is not what that conscious energy may be in it's totality.
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