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  #201  
Old 30-03-2018, 02:43 PM
Greenslade Greenslade is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonglow
Namaste Greenslade,

You know, wonder if it is not so much we forgot to be Spiritual, but in a way forgot how to Human. As you point out.

Seems some so busy trying to be this or that or please someone or sone deity, that in the mad rush forget that it is already inside us. The potentials to create change and bring one another together. If doubted, just look at human history. Look at what has been created, noticed, changed, and discovered.

It is amazing and this organism that is my body and mind is downright awesome.

It seems though that ideas get set up in the mind as to how it should be. When expectations are not met, blame is placed upon the other person, God, and yes Ego. How much is placed on the individual him/her self? In the manner of not brow beating oneself, but being honest with oneself and taking responsibility for oneself.

When Spirituality becomes a fad and fashion, then it seems it gets watered down. The point gets blurred and it becomes grouped up. It's like if not in with the crowd then viewed as wierd, old fashion, and other labels. All about love, if conformed to the set ways. Not all, but enough to project feelings of some how being unworthy, in some circles.

But, it doesn't work that way for me. To be honest it feels false in some ways.
I am at a point of being alright with being a bit on the outskirts. The circle dance of going around trying to prove or extinguish that which may be uncomfortable seems too much work.

Finding comfort in the discomfort. It ain't about ego, this just comes with the territoritory and yes being Human. It is about living life. About living among and with each other as willing and able to do. Yes, it is calming and a bit fun.

I can laugh at bits of it and not take everything as a personal assault. I can be myself and with myself. I can be with others and share in the Human experience and listen to thier stories.

Sure my ego will chirp up, so do others. Not butting heads about it, too much and not feeling I have no say in the matter seems what arises.

People may define me as they feel, sense, perceive me, but just relaying how they relate and at times bringing me back to Earth and to what is at hand.

Spirit goes right along for it is that energy of life, being alive in all things.
May not think fully like Spirit, then again Spirit may not think about it, just does it (whatever it may be). Both Spirit and I dancing through this journey to the rhythms of life.
Namaste Moonglow

The other day I watched a mother and child make their way out of the supermarket, the mother laden and the child errant. The child wanted to go anywhere except where he was being told to by the parent - you probably know what I mean. I stood where I didn't want the child to be, using a bit of reverse psychology because there were cars on the go. Perhaps we're still that child, wanting to go anywhere other than to where we should be going. In the rush to be Spiritual we don't realise that we came from Spirit, and perhaps the most Spiritual thing we can do is be human because sometimes being human is far more awesome than having a head full of contradictory beliefs, theologies and ideologies.

Life is for the Living, Spirituality is for those mortals who stand waiting to die.

Thing is Moonglow, who or what is so downright awesome? Who or what is this 'I'? If we don't know who this 'I' is, how can we tell if he's so damned awesome if we don't know what we're talking about? You see, your brain has a thought then 200 (I seem to remember) milliseconds later you're conscious of it. You are not the thinker of your thoughts, so who or what is? Or are you just a consciousness along for the ride?

Sorry but it makes me laugh. I was listening to the radio in the car with my daughter when a very old but reworked song came on that had been a favourite of mine at the time. As I sang along she looked shocked. "Dad! How can you know the words? That's a new song." I let that one go, it's what dads do, they have superhuman powers. Ahem! It's the same with Spirituality, it's regurgitated whatever came before. Feeling unworthy was happening even pre-Christianity and we're still doing the same things today. If nothing changes then nothing changes.

If you really want to be Spiritual then you'd realise that if there is no time, there is no need for Spiritual development. Heck, there is no Spiritual development because that can only happen within a concept of time. If there is no time then we are already 'there', fully paid-up members of the Spiritually Advanced Society, Gods and gurus one and all. Beer and popcorn for a job done?

"My shoes are too tight, but it does not matter because I have forgotten how to dance."
Ambassador Molari,
Centauri Republic aboard Babylon 5

Leave your shoes at the door, Moonglow, and welcome to liberation.
__________________
"Take your legacy and understand what has gone before. Make a new tomorrow in Love, Light and Faith."
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  #202  
Old 30-03-2018, 03:38 PM
7luminaries 7luminaries is offline
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I haven't followed the thread and will have to read in full later.

Just a quick comment...this incarnation, IMO, like all our incarnations and all our experience...is for realisation and growth. Continuation of such.

Physical incarnation is challenging IMO because the body has needs, we experience physical pain and limitations, and because we have to develop, hone, and utilise our higher thought and our higher humanity, our moral intelligence, to co-create and sustain human community (society, culture). We have to live together and contribute and learn how to get along and care for one another. This is true in a broad and universal sense...applying variously to all humanity who incarnate and show up here

These incarnations are ALSO about healing and growth in the most personal, fractal sense. We bring our (often unknown or unrealised) experiences of other incarnations and all the unresolved challenges, difficulties, and traumas we experienced elsewhere. And we accrue more of the same in this lifetime as well.

For each of us and for all of us, the love we are at centre has only to be revealed. And yet, how to go about getting centred and getting to this place or state of being? When even in just this one lifetime, many of us have plenty to be getting on with...loads of trauma and/or challenges, many of them quite severe and to some degree some are permanent obstructions (particularly if in a deprived, harsh or violent environment round the globe...or if physically or mentally challenged or ill, or if abuse has been severe or long-term, and so forth).

We are still beautiful in spirit and we are still valuable and worthy as we are...we are still love at the centre of our being. Of course we are. But these obstructions and challenges are very real...all too real for many round the globe. And they do present a very real challenge to realising and to sustaining our alignment with our heart centre, with who we really are.

So...point being, and long story short...IMO, it really does matter what we say and what we do. It does matter where we put our focus in our lives. How we treat one another and how we treat ourselves...our manifest word and deed. So critical. We all deserve kindness and equity from one another. As manifest outcomes of the lovingkindness and equanimity we all are at centre.

Why is this so important? Because in treating one another at the personal level --I.e., as people and as individuals -- with respect, with regard, with worth and value, we create a circle of belonging. Within this circle of belonging, we show or mirror to others that they are worthy and valued, despite their obstructions and challenges. And in so doing, we also provide a space for others to realise and truly accept that they ARE (still) worthy and valued and to then take ownership of their own worth and value.

This isn't immediate...the circle of belonging is eternal...it defines a core aspect of what it means to be human and sentient. And it is necessary for us to reach the fullness of our potential. Likewise, provides a space for others to then go beyond themselves and realise the same about you and everyone else...that you and others are also equally worthy and valued, equally to themselves. To remember this truth...to remember the love they are at centre.

Being kind and courteous and treating others equitably allows folks to feel safe, to relax, to overcome fear or other fear-based responses, and to be in the moment with one another within the circle of belonging. Without this circle of belonging, it will be logistically more difficult for many (if not most) to relax and focus on the love and joy when they are threatened, starving, afraid, lacking resources, etc.

All truth, all love, and all fellowship IMO is ultimately found and known most deeply within the circle of belonging.

Peace & blessings
7L
__________________
Bound by conventions, people tend to reach for what is easy.

Here we must be unafraid of what is difficult.

For all living beings in nature must unfold in their particular way

and become themselves despite all opposition.

-- Rainer Maria Rilke
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  #203  
Old 30-03-2018, 03:57 PM
7luminaries 7luminaries is offline
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Quote:
Beer and popcorn for a job done?

Make it popcorn and cider & meet you there.
It's Friday!!!

Peace & blessings
7L
__________________
Bound by conventions, people tend to reach for what is easy.

Here we must be unafraid of what is difficult.

For all living beings in nature must unfold in their particular way

and become themselves despite all opposition.

-- Rainer Maria Rilke
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  #204  
Old 30-03-2018, 04:47 PM
Eelco Eelco is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenslade
Thing is Moonglow, who or what is so downright awesome? Who or what is this 'I'? If we don't know who this 'I' is, how can we tell if he's so damned awesome if we don't know what we're talking about? You see, your brain has a thought then 200 (I seem to remember) milliseconds later you're conscious of it. You are not the thinker of your thoughts, so who or what is? Or are you just a consciousness along for the ride?

The way I think about it. Which is taken from pragmatic dharma, theravadan buddhism 101.
Like the eye sees and eye consciousness makes a picture from it.
the brain thoughts and brain consciousness makes thinking from it.

Thoughts from this perspective is nothing more that just another sense
seeing,
hearing,
smelling,
touching
thinking.

even more disturbing is the fact that these theories describe consciousness as arising from sense contact. So we are not even a linear progression along some consciousness beings timeline.
One second it is not, the next it is, until that too passes away.

Although i try to use concepts like ego, spirit and such because at some level they seem to make sense and are loosely defined. In reality it appears as if they are just that concept, abstractions.. subject to arising, lingering and vanishing. Just like any other phenomenon.

In insight meditation 16 stages are described when learning, experiencing the intricacies of this "Play"



This is one overview. there are many more with different emphases, but it appears as if in most mystery schools people go through these stages.

With Love
Eelco
__________________
~~~
Been an avid searcher for over 35 years.
Mostly I found deluded fantasies..
Still the Gem's are worth it

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  #205  
Old 30-03-2018, 06:28 PM
Moonglow Moonglow is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: New York, USA
Posts: 3,273
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenslade
Namaste Moonglow

The other day I watched a mother and child make their way out of the supermarket, the mother laden and the child errant. The child wanted to go anywhere except where he was being told to by the parent - you probably know what I mean. I stood where I didn't want the child to be, using a bit of reverse psychology because there were cars on the go. Perhaps we're still that child, wanting to go anywhere other than to where we should be going. In the rush to be Spiritual we don't realise that we came from Spirit, and perhaps the most Spiritual thing we can do is be human because sometimes being human is far more awesome than having a head full of contradictory beliefs, theologies and ideologies.

Life is for the Living, Spirituality is for those mortals who stand waiting to die.

Thing is Moonglow, who or what is so downright awesome? Who or what is this 'I'? If we don't know who this 'I' is, how can we tell if he's so damned awesome if we don't know what we're talking about? You see, your brain has a thought then 200 (I seem to remember) milliseconds later you're conscious of it. You are not the thinker of your thoughts, so who or what is? Or are you just a consciousness along for the ride?

Sorry but it makes me laugh. I was listening to the radio in the car with my daughter when a very old but reworked song came on that had been a favourite of mine at the time. As I sang along she looked shocked. "Dad! How can you know the words? That's a new song." I let that one go, it's what dads do, they have superhuman powers. Ahem! It's the same with Spirituality, it's regurgitated whatever came before. Feeling unworthy was happening even pre-Christianity and we're still doing the same things today. If nothing changes then nothing changes.

If you really want to be Spiritual then you'd realise that if there is no time, there is no need for Spiritual development. Heck, there is no Spiritual development because that can only happen within a concept of time. If there is no time then we are already 'there', fully paid-up members of the Spiritually Advanced Society, Gods and gurus one and all. Beer and popcorn for a job done?

"My shoes are too tight, but it does not matter because I have forgotten how to dance."
Ambassador Molari,
Centauri Republic aboard Babylon 5

Leave your shoes at the door, Moonglow, and welcome to liberation.

Namaste Greenslade,

How much is simply created by our interactions? Who is determining whether these interactions are anymore or less spiritual?

Felt to protect the child in some way? Leads my thoughts to, that there is more to this ego thing then what is conceptualized, philosophied, and even told by some as fact, IMO.

At times do things because it is what is needed or the best option to do.
What can be lived with, what is felt, what one connects to. Which fully indicates to me that the individual is there. The identifying in some way is there. Who the person is in some respect is there. Reflecting and at times projecting how it is thought to be.

We are awesome. I took anatomy class, learned message therapy and Reiki. Both showed the physical and energetic aspects of humans. Some may brush these practices off, I do not care, not for them.

Not what I created in my mind, but what is experienced being Human. Our physical body, our energy body, interacting with this existence. What is being revealed about our brains, the Universe, and people coming together to create changes. If all this is not awesome, then what can be said?

Sure there is the flip side as well, that is challenging at times. But, as Humans have survived through it. We are either very stubborn being or perhaps have more in us then willing to give credit.

Yes, things get recycled, reformed, created in new ways borrowing bits and pieces from what is and was. Some familiar with the bits, others experiencing them for the first time as recreated.
Magical in its ways.

We are not an oops, some experiment gone wrong, a mistake to Spirit. Yes, need to wake up and take responsibilities in ways. But, what motivates to do anything at all? To help, to heal, to just run and splash in the puddles?
If no individual, no sense of self, no thing, then all this would not even exist, IMO.

I get the thinking part and can relate in some ways it creating a reality of sorts.
I get the variations in perspectives.
What perhaps itches at the mind is what is being developed?
If already there, if in essence Spirit already knows, then is just for the experience?

Right now I am kicking off the shoes, grabbing some popcorn, popping a beer and enjoying the show.
Yes, it has been a long time since I have had such freedom.
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  #206  
Old 30-03-2018, 08:25 PM
Moonglow Moonglow is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: New York, USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 7luminaries
I haven't followed the thread and will have to read in full later.

Just a quick comment...this incarnation, IMO, like all our incarnations and all our experience...is for realisation and growth. Continuation of such.

Physical incarnation is challenging IMO because the body has needs, we experience physical pain and limitations, and because we have to develop, hone, and utilise our higher thought and our higher humanity, our moral intelligence, to co-create and sustain human community (society, culture). We have to live together and contribute and learn how to get along and care for one another. This is true in a broad and universal sense...applying variously to all humanity who incarnate and show up here

These incarnations are ALSO about healing and growth in the most personal, fractal sense. We bring our (often unknown or unrealised) experiences of other incarnations and all the unresolved challenges, difficulties, and traumas we experienced elsewhere. And we accrue more of the same in this lifetime as well.

For each of us and for all of us, the love we are at centre has only to be revealed. And yet, how to go about getting centred and getting to this place or state of being? When even in just this one lifetime, many of us have plenty to be getting on with...loads of trauma and/or challenges, many of them quite severe and to some degree some are permanent obstructions (particularly if in a deprived, harsh or violent environment round the globe...or if physically or mentally challenged or ill, or if abuse has been severe or long-term, and so forth).

We are still beautiful in spirit and we are still valuable and worthy as we are...we are still love at the centre of our being. Of course we are. But these obstructions and challenges are very real...all too real for many round the globe. And they do present a very real challenge to realising and to sustaining our alignment with our heart centre, with who we really are.

So...point being, and long story short...IMO, it really does matter what we say and what we do. It does matter where we put our focus in our lives. How we treat one another and how we treat ourselves...our manifest word and deed. So critical. We all deserve kindness and equity from one another. As manifest outcomes of the lovingkindness and equanimity we all are at centre.

Why is this so important? Because in treating one another at the personal level --I.e., as people and as individuals -- with respect, with regard, with worth and value, we create a circle of belonging. Within this circle of belonging, we show or mirror to others that they are worthy and valued, despite their obstructions and challenges. And in so doing, we also provide a space for others to realise and truly accept that they ARE (still) worthy and valued and to then take ownership of their own worth and value.

This isn't immediate...the circle of belonging is eternal...it defines a core aspect of what it means to be human and sentient. And it is necessary for us to reach the fullness of our potential. Likewise, provides a space for others to then go beyond themselves and realise the same about you and everyone else...that you and others are also equally worthy and valued, equally to themselves. To remember this truth...to remember the love they are at centre.

Being kind and courteous and treating others equitably allows folks to feel safe, to relax, to overcome fear or other fear-based responses, and to be in the moment with one another within the circle of belonging. Without this circle of belonging, it will be logistically more difficult for many (if not most) to relax and focus on the love and joy when they are threatened, starving, afraid, lacking resources, etc.

All truth, all love, and all fellowship IMO is ultimately found and known most deeply within the circle of belonging.

Peace & blessings
7L

Hi 7L,

I relate to what you present in essence.
I found that a simple hello, or nod to someone can go a long ways.
People, I feel, sometimes just want to be acknowledge and feel someone cares.

It can be rough out there. Feeling alone in it can be a crummy feeling. So if one is willing and able, I say do it..

Not to worry about whether it may be received in kind. Sometimes the smallest act, can have the biggest impact and bring sense of belonging.
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  #207  
Old 30-03-2018, 08:45 PM
7luminaries 7luminaries is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,042
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonglow
Hi 7L,

I relate to what you present in essence.
I found that a simple hello, or nod to someone can go a long ways.
People, I feel, sometimes just want to be acknowledge and feel someone cares.

It can be rough out there. Feeling alone in it can be a crummy feeling. So if one is willing and able, I say do it..

Not to worry about whether it may be received in kind. Sometimes the smallest act, can have the biggest impact and bring sense of belonging.

Hey there Moon and you're so right. The smallest things are really the biggest...
and I'm certain we can all think of a few times when someone's kindness was impactful and made such a difference.

It's hard to overdo the addition of a little more love and presence in the world

Peace & blessings
7L
__________________
Bound by conventions, people tend to reach for what is easy.

Here we must be unafraid of what is difficult.

For all living beings in nature must unfold in their particular way

and become themselves despite all opposition.

-- Rainer Maria Rilke
Reply With Quote
  #208  
Old 07-04-2018, 04:17 PM
boshy b. good
Posts: n/a
 
if people don't like to hand themselves over to trust, that's their problem, they got a problem,
so next time chill and unwynd that you are going to belong to making on up better sense, and
the next time people try to outsmart as of "unrighteous," you'd know you are be cleaner and
straighter with or without any good physical hygene.

Last edited by boshy b. good : 07-04-2018 at 08:21 PM.
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  #209  
Old 07-04-2018, 08:23 PM
boshy b. good
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
we make peace.
we better make peace.

m. m. he says start brand new with that.

it is really quite logical peace can be
afforded no matter where we have
been.

m. m. that is good.


peace be the sunshine anymore.

m. m. ha!

peace exists, let's pretend peace
is and be easy.

m. m. muah!

peace shakes it off without the hit singles

m. m. amen. cool.
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  #210  
Old 23-04-2018, 01:58 AM
ketzer ketzer is offline
Guide
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 728
 
Ego is a construct of the mind built up over the course of the human life experience. It is the minds temporary model of “self” and is essential to the human life experience. I do not see it as at war with the self, but rather a rather a filter used by the self to create the illusion of the personal human experience. While one could see beyond the ego to realize the underlying nature of the formless awareness out of which all the forms of life are created, this is a different experience then the personal life experience and one must become aware of the ego again to experience being a human being. One useful function of the ego is to provide an amalgamation of the life experience, a melding of the effects of various experiences presented to the self to “become” in a very direct and visceral way.
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