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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Science & Spirituality

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  #51  
Old 24-12-2018, 09:34 PM
ketzer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by God-Like
What is the foundation that is real that is used and then compared to be an illusion?

This is the whole dilemma that I hear and see .

What is present that is real that is not illusory or unreal?

If all that we have is an illusory or unreal person that speaks of being unreal or illusory then whatever is evaluated is tarred with the same unreal / illusory brush.

What is the real comparison that is of this world?



x daz x
Everything that is, is unreal and illusory from one perspective, yet real from another. That which is, is relative to the perceiver. There is no absolute reference frame to compare everything else against.
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  #52  
Old 25-12-2018, 11:34 AM
God-Like God-Like is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ketzer
Everything that is, is unreal and illusory from one perspective, yet real from another. That which is, is relative to the perceiver. There is no absolute reference frame to compare everything else against.



I agree there is no absolute reference point in regards to perceiving self or this world .

What I am interested in is this reference frame / point that one obtains in order to say what that say .

I have had discussions elsewhere where the tone is set that this world is a dream and we are all are just dream characters but are able to as a dream character speak about what is true and what is not, what is real or what is unreal from a standing point of being a dream character lol .

For myself it’s important to understand one’s foundation and if one’s foundation is built upon a dream then all that is said is within a dream context, so no matter how wise the guru sounds, it’s all dream’t and contains no real substance .

One might as well hold their illusory breath for what it's worth


x daz x
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  #53  
Old 25-12-2018, 01:52 PM
ketzer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by God-Like
I agree there is no absolute reference point in regards to perceiving self or this world .

What I am interested in is this reference frame / point that one obtains in order to say what that say .

I have had discussions elsewhere where the tone is set that this world is a dream and we are all are just dream characters but are able to as a dream character speak about what is true and what is not, what is real or what is unreal from a standing point of being a dream character lol .

For myself it’s important to understand one’s foundation and if one’s foundation is built upon a dream then all that is said is within a dream context, so no matter how wise the guru sounds, it’s all dream’t and contains no real substance .

One might as well hold their illusory breath for what it's worth


x daz x
One can hold their illusory breath for as long as they like, but I don't think they are ever going to find a foundation from which to stand and judge the reality or non-reality of everything else. When we wake from a dream and hold an object in our hand we say this is real substance, and what was in the dream was not real. But if we dive deep into the foundations of science, we find that "real" substance no longer sees so real anymore. All of the qualifications that we use to judge it as real were themselves not what we thought (or only what we thought). Even space and time starts to stretch, bend, and warp like silly putty in response to velocity and gravity, and we find that what is true and real to us may seem completely warped and wrong from the perspective of another observer. We begin to argue with each other about whose clock is right and whose ruler gives the correct length. We begin to argue about whether something is even there when we are not looking at it. It is a silly argument as there is no universal foundation with the right time and correct length. There is no standard of reality, at least I don't think there is. Anyway, if you wish to keep looking for one, I suggest you start with the space-time interval, that appears to be something we call all agree upon, at least in this particular four dimensional reality.

Last edited by ketzer : 26-12-2018 at 12:30 AM.
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  #54  
Old 25-12-2018, 02:33 PM
r6r6 r6r6 is offline
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Absolute Truths

Quote:
ketzer---I There is no standard of reality, at least I don't think there is.


Absolute Truths: Cosmic { physical } laws/principles ex the can only exist five regular/symmetrical and convex polyhedra of Universe.

Speed-of-radiation is a constant to all observers---weird but true---
Quote:
Anyway, if you wish to keep looking for one, I suggest you start with the space-time interval, that appears to be something we call all agree upon, at least in this particular four dimensional reality.

X{a}Y{b}Z{c} + time and or {d-spatial } volumetric diagonal / of cube:

X{a} ----vertical height
...at 90 degrees following set of two---

Y{b} -----horizontal width
.....at 90 degrees to set of two---

Z{c} ------horizontal depth
......at 90 degrees to set of two....

time { relativity of speed, location and angle? }

{d} ----volumetric 4th spatial dimension as volumetric diagonal / of cube and at 45 degrees to set of three{ abc }
http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/at...2&d=1545748298
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  #55  
Old 26-12-2018, 04:54 AM
Jefferson Jefferson is offline
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This is the great divide between us all. We have one prospective, the one life we lead. This is alienating to most.Though we are all different, we are all the same in this respect.. We are all having unique experiences. What separates us is what also connects us.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shivani Devi
Please riddle me this, Batman, Batmen and Batgirls...

So, everybody is telling me that there is no separation...people are all the same...there is no difference between "I" and "you".

Why is it then, that no two individual or personal universes are ever the same? and some have absolutely NO mutual 'points of reference' at ALL - how does one reconcile that within non duality?

How does one reconcile that which makes one person happy, can make another person totally miserable?

How does one reconcile that individual and personal beliefs can shape an individual reality SO much that it seems totally incomprehensible and irreconcilable to another who does NOT share them? even right down to basic sensory perceptions?

For some, the differences between human vs human are even MORE distinct than "Human vs Dog" or "Human vs Tree" so wherefore IS that "non separation" and "connection'? because I have always had difficulty seeing it because I am not Neurotypical.
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