3 years have passed

[madcat]

Hello everyone,
I haven't posted on this website for three years, i haven t even visited it.
I suppose I have had things keeping me buzy, with studies and what not,
During these three years i have become a true atheist, which is one thing, but also a true skeptic.
I ve been reasoning these last few days, thinking about what i believe in and why...
I dont believe in an all-virtuous and all-generous god because i dont think such a god would let (among other things) innocents die everyday. After thinking of that, i started to discipline myself into quitting justifying whatever happens to me with god's will. As a result, i have pushed a little too far, i no longer believe in anything, or i have a hard time to. This is encouraged by my surrounding (my studies are scientific and the people around me are all scientist). But I havent found as of now a pseudo-rational reason not to believe in spirit guides, reincarnation, ghosts, faeries, whatever ! I would like to let myself believe, it s fascinating and intriging, but I m on the quest for truth...

I m not asking you to tell me what is tue or not but

Have any of you thought about this or have wondered what is true/what can be pseudo-rationally disproved/what we can know for sure ?

Love,
Madcat

[iamthat]

There is very little we can know for sure beyond the fact that we exist in this moment. Just about everything else is belief and theory.

But we have to make some kind of sense of our universe so we each have a theoretical model of what it's all about. As we learn more, we may have to tweak that model to allow for new information. And sometimes we realise that our model is totally inappropriate so we have to discard it.

My own model of the universe happily allows for and explains such phenomena as spirit guides, reincarnation, ghosts, fairies, etc. It also allows for a loving creative Intelligence which permits innocents to die every day. Because my model allows for many dimensions, not just a material universe. And my model considers that all is consciousness, and consciousness never dies. The death of the physical body is simply a transition of consciousness.

If you have a problem with an all-virtuous and all generous God allowing innocents to die then perhaps you have to adjust your model of your beliefs about the universe.

Peace.

[John32241]

Hello,

I think we all wonder what is true for us and why. The knowledge we are given as children are indeed the truths of another. Now if you work in a scientific community then truth is constantly expanding as we push against those known laws of physics. This is this is what those you work with desire to do.

What we Can know for sure is that we are Loved. That is my belief and my truth.

John

[Clear Blue Sky]

evolution did not blindly invent consciousness.... it wound up tapping into it. Just as light is far more than the biomechanical byproduct of a firefly's butt, though the long process of firefly butt evolution has lead to light.

relax and try to just KNOW.

[youngnostic]

I respect skeptics because truly 'believe' has 'lie' right in the middle of it... okay jokes aside, the reason why I decided to comment is to recommend a good read called 'Thus Spoke Zarathustra' I've read different translations and the best one is by Clancy Martin.
If you're into atheism, Thus Spoke Zarathustra provides a cool outlook on evolution and the meaning for the Earth with G-d being obsolete.

[Shivani Devi]

Truth/reality is whatever we experience it to be.

If we are atheists, we shall have the experience of being an atheist. If we believe in God, we shall have the experience of God (either directly or indirectly).

To an atheist, God does not exist. To one who has seen/felt God in their heart and beyond it, how can God not? and yet a believer cannot prove the existence of God to an atheist, nor can God be disproved by the atheist to the believer. It is all 'he said, she said' stuff...all circumstantial, all hearsay and we could even say that if there is a God, He/She makes themselves known to only those God sees fit to do so and has us forever asking "why me?"

In the end, for a God-realised soul, no conversations can ever be had about God, because it all boils down to somebody saying "I don't believe in God", me saying "Well, I do", the other person saying "well good for you" and me saying "well, good for you too" and that's the whole of it.

[wstein]

Originally Posted by madcat

I dont believe in an all-virtuous and all-generous god because i dont think such a god would let (among other things) innocents die everyday.

Have any of you thought about this or have wondered what is true/what can be pseudo-rationally disproved/what we can know for sure ?

You say you have become an athiest but only indicate you don't believe in a 'all-virtuous and all-generous god'. Have you considered that a possible god might be less loving or less generous than you imagined them to be? Perhaps 'virtuous' and 'generous' don't even apply to such a being.

I am the last one to talk you back into 'god'. However, your post seems to indicate more disillusionment of 'god' not meeting your expectations (and therefore does not exist). This seems more about you and your preconceptions than any 'god' that might or might not exist. That doesn't seem like a very authentic exploration in search of 'god'.

It may seem like word-play but I find an atheist position hardly different from theist. It takes just as much a stretch of belief that there's no god up in the sky somewhere than there is; or that when you croak it, oblivion follows rather than being judged about where you'll next go and hopefully book your cloud and arrange harp lessons. We simply don't know.

The gnostic idea works fine for me. It allows me to be open-minded about all possibilities.

♥

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by Lorelyen

It may seem like word-play but I find an atheist position hardly different from theist. It takes just as much a stretch of belief that there's no god up in the sky somewhere than there is; or that when you croak it, oblivion follows rather than being judged about where you'll next go and hopefully book your cloud and arrange harp lessons. We simply don't know.

The gnostic idea works fine for me. It allows me to be open-minded about all possibilities.

♥

Agreed. Atheism and theism are two sides of the same coin. Both involve holding beliefs about God - denying the existence of God is as much a belief as anything found in any religions. And atheists have their own particular prophets and doctrines. How is the theory of everything being created by some big bang any different from the idea that everything was created out of nothing by some Divine Intelligence?

In the end, the Truth is not out there - the answers lie within.

Peace.

[Baile]

Originally Posted by madcat

I realise that this existencial crisis was actually part of my spiritual journey but at the time i felt terrible, I wanted to spend everyday in bed, weeping about the "overatedness" of life...

You may not read this until three years from now nevertheless...

I quoted your last post from 2015. It's telling. You were depressed. And you now appear to have come through the other side. You are reborn. You are a whole new you. That's what happens after depression is healed. And it's fantastic that you seem to have a healthy, intuitive understanding of the illusion aspects of spiritual-religious belief doctrine. It's actually belief doctrine that causes that depression in a lot of people. At its worst it leads to fundamentalism and real mind illness.

All I can suggest is read some esoteric literature if you're looking for soul-spirit inspiration. There are truths about Spirit that are life giving and soul healing. My own experience is I had to come to those truths on my own. So seeking and questioning and wondering what's what is a natural part of the process. And it's not about reading something in order to believe it. It's learning see your life as a vehicle via which you manifest your soul-spirit inspiration. It's YOU who does that. And that starts with the inspired understanding that life is in fact "underrated." Life is a miracle. Miracles are happening around us in every moment. It's about learning to see the miracles, and experiencing their synchronicity in one's life and soul, in order to understand and love the world, and to love the process of incarnation and being alive.

The esoteric/spiritual student loves being alive. Being alive is her/his soul university.