Need for advice regarding motivation/inner flame

[Michelle11]

Originally Posted by Baile

Well there are many crimes that are indeed inherently bad. Murder and genocide for example.

Regarding my points and generally speaking, getting blackout drunk every weekend is unhealthy and bad. Smoking so much that you're addicted, and always feeling sick and rundown, is unhealthy and bad. Nothing to do with what society thinks, and everything to do with one's physical, emotional, mental and soul-spiritual well-being. And I agreed it's important to understand "I am perfect in this moment" even while moving towards self-improvement objectives, yes.

All things work for our better good. You are stronger and have learned from your life challenges and that is good. Everything serves a purpose. Should may work but has the potential to be toxic. That is all I am saying.

[Jyotir]

Originally Posted by Michelle11

All things work for our better good. You are stronger and have learned from your life challenges and that is good. Everything serves a purpose. Should may work but has the potential to be toxic. That is all I am saying.

Hi Michelle,

I am agreeing with Baile in principle - he's eminently pragmatic in this regard:

Originally Posted by Baile in reply #13

There is most definitely an aspect of 'should' in our spiritual seeking. Otherwise we would never progress, and soul evolution is in fact the reason we are here, and why we repeatedly incarnate. Wisdom is understanding the difference between ego 'wanting,' and higher self 'knowing.' Most definitely, the higher self guides us towards those soul-development aspects we should, and even need to, evolve towards.

- and wish to point out the hazard of the opposing (now conventional) view.

Should may work but has the potential to be toxic.

Likewise, "everything is perfect the way it is" may work,

but complacency (and denial) has the potential to be toxic.

It is not practical to emphasize only half the story - although people do according to their preference, or their most immediate or striking experience, such as learning acceptance as a principle. But that is only half the story.

If "everything is perfect the way it is" is valid - then that must include the spiritual aspiration for transformation of darkness into light, etc., which is inherent within and emergent in life-experience as an irrepressible dynamic force (whether acknowledged or not). "Should" in that case is aspiration, inspiration, recognition, intuition - which is the inner transformational message of truth from Spirit that is nascent as a conscious process in seekers and why unfamiliar to them.

Receptivity to it creates progress (vs. stasis). It is every bit as much a secret of spiritual growth as, "everything is perfect the way it is" - perhaps more so because it has not yet become captured / recognized by 'spiritual culture' as the essential vehicle it is.

There is a common belief that passivity - politely waiting for Sprit - is standard operating procedure in spiritual life. This isn't true, since Spirit is responsive to our call, our invocation - especially when aligned with its own will for emergence in the physical. The formation of a conscious deliberate invocation is what spirituality is in essence.

The parent is going to feed the child.
But if the child cries, the response is more immediate (and there is no confusion about what is happening).
When this applies to worldly ambition and greed, it is problematic.
When it applies to spiritual aspiration, it is self and world changing.


~ J

[Jyotir]

Originally Posted by Laisrian

I have a question, if you don't mind sharing your knowledge with me. It's more of an issue...

Well. I've been aware of the spiritual stuff ever since I can remember something (I saw spirits as a kid. Then that ability was shut off by me due to being scared, but I got in touch with this again). I had my ups and downs, just like everyone else. And I got my awakening this year, in January, after meeting a soulmate and learning with him (I've learned a lot from him so far! He's far more knowledgeable than I am, but I have developed gifts that he doesn't have that developed, so it's like we can confirm each other's progress in different ways). But well... There is one thing he tells me pretty much every day because it is hindering my spiritual development and I have no idea what to do about it.
Even though I am awake, it's like I have no flame of my own. No desires. That kind of desire that makes you want to move mountains. I don't have a list of goals because I don't even know exactly what I want in my life. I can't pick a thing over another (like love over career or something). I'm just okay with my life and I'm moving forward, but... I should work towards something. I should have a flame, shouldn't I? I should want something...
What advice would you give to someone that seems to not have a inner flame?

Hi Laisrian,

You have the inner flame burning, or else you wouldn't be in this 'place' currently. But you can also ask for the inner flame to burn more intensely - and that doesn't necessarily mean the fulfillment of expectation.

There is a vast difference between ambition(desire) vs. aspiration. The former is ego driven, separative and ignorant. The latter is determined by Spirit, and is progressive, unitary and illumined. Invoke Spirit and allow Spirit to signal and provide for changes in your life. It takes some time to become familiar with this new dialog post-awakening: the conscious deliberate invocation of the divine Will in and though the individual life, the intuiting of it, and your own response in action. Spirit has to choose, Spirit has to lead.

Otherwise, it is common to keep applying the very familiar veneer of worldly ambition, desire and expectation onto a nascent spiritual awakening which is not so familiar and has different 'rules', and it takes time to sort it out - what's what. This speaks to discrimination, patience, receptivity, and a cheerful calm resolute detachment and persistence while spirit emerges as a greater conscious awareness in the life.


~ J

[Michelle11]

Originally Posted by Jyotir

Hi Michelle,

I am agreeing with Baile in principle - he's eminently pragmatic in this regard: - and wish to point out the hazard of the opposing (now conventional) view.


Likewise, "everything is perfect the way it is" may work,

but complacency (and denial) has the potential to be toxic.

It is not practical to emphasize only half the story - although people do according to their preference, or their most immediate or striking experience, such as learning acceptance as a principle. But that is only half the story.

If "everything is perfect the way it is" is valid - then that must include the spiritual aspiration for transformation of darkness into light, etc., which is inherent within and emergent in life-experience as an irrepressible dynamic force (whether acknowledged or not). "Should" in that case is aspiration, inspiration, recognition, intuition - which is the inner transformational message of truth from Spirit that is nascent as a conscious process in seekers and why unfamiliar to them.

Receptivity to it creates progress (vs. stasis). It is every bit as much a secret of spiritual growth as, "everything is perfect the way it is" - perhaps more so because it has not yet become captured / recognized by 'spiritual culture' as the essential vehicle it is.

There is a common belief that passivity - politely waiting for Sprit - is standard operating procedure in spiritual life. This isn't true, since Spirit is responsive to our call, our invocation - especially when aligned with its own will for emergence in the physical. The formation of a conscious deliberate invocation is what spirituality is in essence.

The parent is going to feed the child.
But if the child cries, the response is more immediate (and there is no confusion about what is happening).
When this applies to worldly ambition and greed, it is problematic.
When it applies to spiritual aspiration, it is self and world changing.


~ J

You misunderstand. I am not saying that one needs be passive to avoid a should. I'm not saying one should or shouldn't follow a desire to transform themselves. We actually can't help but change. We are always changing and in the process of transformation despite anything we choose to do or not do. It is just how life works. None of us is the same person we were when we were young. Change is constant. It may be slower if we sit and do nothing but we are changing. So we can have a desire to be more open or find motivation without putting obligation behind it because a should makes it imperative and that is why it is toxic. Not the doing or pursuing of it just the idea that we are doing something wrong otherwise if we don't do something specifically. Saying I should be doing something is the same as saying I am wrong for not doing what I think I should be doing and leads to blame. Blaming ourselves for not being something we feel we are not is toxic. We may want to do things, it may benefit us to do those things but we don't need to do anything. Plain and simple. That is all I am saying.

[Laisrian]

Originally Posted by Baile

Take Greenslade's "'should' never makes sense" observation with a grain of salt. There is most definitely an aspect of 'should' in our spiritual seeking. Otherwise we would never progress, and soul evolution is in fact the reason we are here, and why we repeatedly incarnate. Wisdom is understanding the difference between ego 'wanting,' and higher self 'knowing.' Most definitely, the higher self guides us towards those soul-development aspects we should, and even need to, evolve towards.

That's exactly what I believe in, thank you :)

Originally Posted by Michelle11

All I am saying is the more you try to force the river with shoulds the less likely you will get the results you are looking for. Progress happens organically in its own time through life experiences that result in new understandings of ourselves. These experiences happen when and where they are supposed to happen and not a minute sooner or later so we are always where we are meant to be, doing what we are supposed to be doing. You are not dropping any balls, you are never not doing what you are supposed to be doing. If you feel blocked there is a reason for it and self discovery is the way to unblock. We find self discovery by soul searching our feelings, behaviors and beliefs. Often our early childhood experiences have programmed some sort of limited thinking that needs to be weeded out and shifted. Your life will conspire to show you those limited thoughts by drawing events and circumstances that help you see yourself in action. And in the process you will become unblocked naturally. So again, I suggest confiding with your soul to ask what you need to know to move forward and something will conspire, an event, a chance meeting or simple conversation to help you understand what holds you back from living your life with abandon. But in no way are you not doing what you should be doing. It's not possible. We are always where we should be. It's not possible to be anywhere else.

I've been meditating and thinking a lot and yes, I am/was blocked. That's why I was feeling that way (feeling like I needed to do something, but lacking the will to do so). Currently, I think I found a way to get unstuck. I think! I'll try it and check it :)

Originally Posted by Baile

But... when I was a smoker, when I was drinking 4 liters of wine + plus beers every weekend, I knew I was doing something I should not be doing. And I spent months in that place of knowing I should not be doing that, before I was finally able to kick those addictions.

So again, there is an element to all this of, "I should be doing something else, other than what I'm currently doing."

I see it this way: generally speaking, the should-voice we need to learn to block out is the voice of the ego-self. There are spiritual self-development exercises that can help with this in fact. And the should-voice we need to learn to connect and interact with, is the higher-self voice. It's this higher-self "You should be doing this and that" direction that leads to healthy spiritual progress.

That said, always with the understanding that "I am perfect in this moment" even while moving towards self-improvement objectives, yes.

Yes, I agree with you!
Fortunately, my ego-self is usually quiet. I learned a few months ago to keep it in check and it has barely any liberty nowadays. Still, there was that "should-voice" and I knew it was right. But how to do it... I was lacking the will. Right now, I think I found out how to grasp it!

Originally Posted by CrystalSong

You are in a state of desire, you are wanting to know what you should desire!
LOL Isn't the mind tricky?
Contemplate that sticky wicket for a moment!

Right now study your mind, be in the experience you are in, learning what is the reborn you, discarding what doesn't serve you, embracing, discovering and building what does serve you.
We don't try and develop a career when we're still in school learning, first we must build the foundation for a structure to be built upon.

You are still learning right now, it maybe some years before it congeals into what you will create or build. You can't know from here what that will be - the learning must first be done, the path walked, the foundation formed.

Blessings to you! <3

Thank you :)
We are always learning! I feel like there is a whole world to see and to learn. My issue here was that I didn't rely on myself, I guess... I tried tapping into the universe, with my guides, with my mentor/soulmate... They gave me tips, but they never said "you should do this or that". It was something I was supposed to find on my own. It has no meaning if someone tells me. That's when I realized I've been looking everywhere except with my higher self. And I think that's what I have to do now! :)

Originally Posted by SaturninePluto

I couldn't agree here with this more. Not knowing what you currently want at this time can be very freeing, and open. If you are currently looking into some spiritual matters, this is a great place to be at if you wish to look at it that way, open, free. Keeping your options open and preparing for any choices you do decide to make.

However I must absolutely agree also here with Michelle. You should not be any way than how you are right now- a mentor telling myself I should or should not be a certain way doesn't set right to me, also be aware this is according to his views. You do not need necessarily to adopt every one of his views to be able to learn from him.

With that said what I can not fathom here at all is why it was said you have no flame within? This to me does not seem right. We all have gifts, talents, personality and that fire within whether we see it or not.

I would offer the advice that you may wish to relax and learn what you can, with the realization that you are capable of making your own decisions. At the same time you do not have to agree with everything told to you such as "You have no fire within". Who is another to say that to you? Please consider that.

Does not mean you absolutely must end the friendship, but at the same time, you also do not have to believe everything you are told. If you do that is fine, but if you do not that is fine too, and you are still teachable, even if not by this individual, there are many more you can continue to learn from.

All my best to you.

Blessings.

Oh no, my mentor/soulmate didn't tell me what to do or what I should know, don't worry. He was just dropping a few tips. He told me clearly there was no point in him telling me what I should do, that it was something I should find on my own. It's his own way of telling me to push myself a bit further because he knew I should find my flame. It is the next step in my progress. And yes, he was right!
I was the one that said I didn't have a flame because I was able to look at his flame and I wasn't able to look at mine. But it is there. There is something I should do first. There is a block. And that block is probably myself. What's the point of trying to rely on everyone else (universe, soulmates, guides) and not realizing I'm not talking with my higher self? So yeah. I think I ended up finding what I was looking for. It's a new thing to learn! :)

Originally Posted by Jyotir

Hi Laisrian,

You have the inner flame burning, or else you wouldn't be in this 'place' currently. But you can also ask for the inner flame to burn more intensely - and that doesn't necessarily mean the fulfillment of expectation.

There is a vast difference between ambition(desire) vs. aspiration. The former is ego driven, separative and ignorant. The latter is determined by Spirit, and is progressive, unitary and illumined. Invoke Spirit and allow Spirit to signal and provide for changes in your life. It takes some time to become familiar with this new dialog post-awakening: the conscious deliberate invocation of the divine Will in and though the individual life, the intuiting of it, and your own response in action. Spirit has to choose, Spirit has to lead.

Otherwise, it is common to keep applying the very familiar veneer of worldly ambition, desire and expectation onto a nascent spiritual awakening which is not so familiar and has different 'rules', and it takes time to sort it out - what's what. This speaks to discrimination, patience, receptivity, and a cheerful calm resolute detachment and persistence while spirit emerges as a greater conscious awareness in the life.


~ J

You are right! Thank you :)
It's a new phase in my life, it's true. So everything is quite new to me. Sometimes, being sensitive and gifted to see some things on the others may hinder us if we are confused. That's what happened with me. I was really confused with seeing the flame on the others and not on myself (and that allowed my ego to come in the way. I have a flame and it was making me believe I didn't have one). But yes, you are right. I should find the answers on my soul. It's that one place I wasn't looking at because I was able to come so far without it. Not anymore!
My next step is talking or tapping into my higher self. I can't progress any further without this. Relying on everything else doesn't teach me how to talk with my own soul, isn't it?