God must make his presence known to me right now

[MattMVS7]

Originally Posted by Azmond

Perhaps the search for God is not a philosophical debate. Also, you keep referring bible, and "Lord" and everyone has its own right to believe what they want to, and I respect that. But maybe the problems you are facing stem from they way you approach God. If you keep realising that no philosophical or bible study will help you really reach or understand God, then perhaps you should "veer" out of this way. I was baptised as christian and followed christian religion as a young boy. I went to class every weekend that taught me about God, and yet I realised growing up, I know absolutely nothing about who or what God is. All I had were stories and some cloudy unrealistic perception of a God, that helplessly tried to picture him as an old man with grey beard sitting somewhere on the clouds in the heavens. Before the baptism of the Holy spirit I already veered out of this way of knowing God, and found a more suitable, intimate and personal way that suit me. I never looked back and even though I received the baptism of the holy spirit as is a tradition, I was already far away from really accepting this as may way of knowing my creator. I am happy I went this way. Questions such as why does God allow suffering to continue if he loves us, became completely irrelevant and nonsensical to me. Also the thought that if God exist he/her/it should make his/hers/its presence known to us, went away like last years snow. Completely irrelevant. The God is not the only important being in this universe. The God is the creator, but we are the will, we are the tool, the essence and purpose of it all. Knowing oneself therefore is as close as knowing the Creator. I feel myself much more comfortable using the word Creator than God.

You my friend stand at the precipice. I sense that your resolution of knowing God, originates from your own troubled acceptance of yourself. You talk about yourself being a sinner, and you think God can resolve you of that. God gave you the all possibility to be whatever you wish to be, so be sinner if you so desire. If you believe that you are a sinner just because you were born to this world, like the Bible teaches, than so be. In my opinion God is so great, he doesn't even remember putting Earth where it is. Its like my mother that would sometime mix the names of me and my brother. Stop trying to force God to reveal its presence to you. Try revealing yourself to the God you believe to exist.

Actually, it all comes down to philosophical debate here because even the recommendations that you are advising to me which you claim is a viable method to be convinced of God's existence, then even this is up for philosophical debate as well. Even personal experiences are up for philosophical debate since there are still other possible explanations to these sorts of things. Therefore, it doesn't matter what you recommend to me. All of it still comes down to philosophical debate.

[lowlyservant]

I bear witness to having seen Jesus when I was a 9 year old child. I have heard Father God's voice. Seen the Holy Spirit. Seen and talked with both angels and demons. I have seen and talked with the dead...those humans without God in the afterlife.

The Christian God Almighty is God Creator. The highest of all gods.

Psalm 99:2. The LORD is great in Zion; and he is high above all the people.

Believe God's witnesses.

[MattMVS7]

Originally Posted by lowlyservant

I bear witness to having seen Jesus when I was a 9 year old child. I have heard Father God's voice. Seen the Holy Spirit. Seen and talked with both angels and demons. I have seen and talked with the dead...those humans without God in the afterlife.

The Christian God Almighty is God Creator. The highest of all gods.

Psalm 99:2. The LORD is great in Zion; and he is high above all the people.

Believe God's witnesses.

None of that matters because it all comes down to a philosophical debate that I don't think I can ever decide on. Read my previous post to get what I mean.

[lowlyservant]

Originally Posted by MattMVS7

None of that matters because it all comes down to a philosophical debate that I don't think I can ever decide on. Read my previous post to get what I mean.

Who are you to demand God's presence?

[MattMVS7]

Originally Posted by lowlyservant

Who are you to demand God's presence?

What other viable method is there? I see no way I can be convinced one way or the other since this is all a philosophical debate. This means that no amount of dedicating and serving my life to a holy Christian life can ever convince me he is real. That leaves me with no choice but for God to literally convince me right here and now somehow.

[Dargor]

Originally Posted by lowlyservant

I bear witness to having seen Jesus when I was a 9 year old child. I have heard Father God's voice. Seen the Holy Spirit. Seen and talked with both angels and demons. I have seen and talked with the dead...those humans without God in the afterlife.

The Christian God Almighty is God Creator. The highest of all gods.

Psalm 99:2. The LORD is great in Zion; and he is high above all the people.

Believe God's witnesses.

If they really just magically appeared to you and not to billions of other people struggling with their faith it sounds pretty much like favoritism to me. Why would they give you special treatment like you are Moses reincarnated or something like that? Just asking.

[Britt]

I want you to test this thought please. 1 Kings ch 19 v 11 - 12 is about Elijah seeking God. He wanted a sign so he went up to the mountain that Moses received the letter. When he got there God sent a wind to rend the mountain, yet it is written God was not in it. Then God sent an earthquake, but God was not in it. Last he sent a fire, again, He was not in it. Then Elijah heard a still small voice (the voice of the holy spirit). Signs are not for us, but the guidance of the holy spirit. He is with you he doesn't have to shake the earth for you to inwardly know he's there. My friend, I ask you to read the bible, and have patience. You will change. Romans ch12 v2, "Be not conformed to this world: but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God." Ask me anything anytime and I will talk with you. Peace

[Britt]

I want you to test this thought please. 1 Kings ch 19 v 11 - 12 is about Elijah seeking God. He wanted a sign so he went up to the mountain that Moses received the letter. When he got there God sent a wind to rend the mountain, yet it is written God was not in it. Then God sent an earthquake, but God was not in it. Last he sent a fire, again, He was not in it. Then Elijah heard a still small voice (the voice of the holy spirit). Signs are not for us, but the guidance of the holy spirit. He is with you he doesn't have to shake the earth for you to inwardly know he's there. My friend, I ask you to read the bible, and have patience. You will change. Romans ch12 v2, "Be not conformed to this world: but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God." Ask me anything anytime and I will talk with you. Peace

[naturesflow]

Originally Posted by MattMVS7

I am a very open minded person and consider all possibilities. I am open to the possibility of a God and an afterlife. I am also open to the possibility that this God could be one who demands and expects that I obey and serve him or that I would be condemned to a horrible afterlife. I have been doing some open minded research on the subject of life after death. As of right now, it doesn't matter what anyone says to me or what claims other people present to me in regards to God's character, if he is real or not, or if I am a blind sinner or not.

The reason why it doesn't matter to me is because, like I said, I am very open minded right now and am open to alternative explanations of the things people offer up here. I am a very wise open minded individual and I do not jump to any given conclusion based upon some things I read online or a holy book such as the bible. There is so much more to look into and have an open mind to. Even things that sound very compelling cannot be trusted since there are plenty of things out there that sound compelling, but are actually not.

However, I have very little to no patience at all since I have no interest in doing research or in dedicating my life to a Christian or other religious lifestyle in order for God's presence to be known to me if he is real. That is no different than expecting me to dedicate my life to a certain career such as dentistry when I have no interest in that career. It is just an unfair and unrealistic expectation of me. If God is real and I really am a sinner who is in need of saving, then why can't God swoop into my mind right now and convince me he is real?

If it's because I am not worthy of a God who would be so frantic as to do all he could to convince me right here and now rather than expecting me to dedicate my life in trying to find him, then why did God even go through the trouble of inspiring a holy book or making a sacrifice for our sins? If he thought mankind was worthy of this and he so loved his human creations as to do this deed, then why can't he take it a step further and make his presence known to me right now considering I have no patience and no interest in seeking him out?

I have done what I could right now in trying to seek out the Lord if he is real and I am not going to do anymore because, like I said, I have no patience and no interest. But if God is real and I do meet him after I die and he says to me that I am a sinner who has one last chance to repent, then I would not be foolish. I would completely give myself unto the Lord right then and there. Any other way would result in a horrible afterlife of misery and there is no way I would choose that.

But considering the fact that I would have to dedicate my life in trying to seek out God and be convinced of his existence if he is real and considering the fact that there are so many people out there who have already done this with a truly open mind and heart and were still not convinced, then it is a waste of my time and I have no interest and no patience for this. As for those who were convinced in a reasonable time frame, then I have no way of knowing if their conviction was through a truly open mind or if they were close minded and just decided to believe God is real.

This lack of knowing further makes my point here that it is all a waste of my time. It's very unlikely that there would be any way to convince me because I have looked and researched into so much already with a truly open mind and heart and I just see nothing more than a vast sea of arguments and debates, but no conclusion being reached one way or another. This is yet another reason why this is all a waste of my time.

When you let go of something, usually life opens up in other ways. This aspect of you wanting to know and find out is no different.

We are explorers at heart, life is for exploring in lots of ways to discover things, find ourselves, gain experience our own way..Go out bush and live in nature for a while, you may be pleasantly surprised what you discover without all this noise your creating here.

Your mind wants proof. You want proof of everything. Some aspects of life cannot be proved, but experienced and integrated into your own awareness. It just is and will be what you want it to be in that. You are not others, you are not any of what others create. You are, your own creation and it speaks for itself, as you show.

Its not about being convinced, its about being immersed more fully into life and looking more directly at yourself and life around you to find your own path and meaning this way. By life, not beliefs. So go live it..:)

[MattMVS7]

Originally Posted by Britt

I want you to test this thought please. 1 Kings ch 19 v 11 - 12 is about Elijah seeking God. He wanted a sign so he went up to the mountain that Moses received the letter. When he got there God sent a wind to rend the mountain, yet it is written God was not in it. Then God sent an earthquake, but God was not in it. Last he sent a fire, again, He was not in it. Then Elijah heard a still small voice (the voice of the holy spirit). Signs are not for us, but the guidance of the holy spirit. He is with you he doesn't have to shake the earth for you to inwardly know he's there. My friend, I ask you to read the bible, and have patience. You will change. Romans ch12 v2, "Be not conformed to this world: but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God." Ask me anything anytime and I will talk with you. Peace

Let's pretend that there is that little voice that speaks within me and I experience it, then how do you expect me to be convinced that is the holy spirit? There are still other possible explanations here. Like I said here, it all comes down to philosophical debate. It doesn't matter what you and others present to me here to try and convince me that God is real; it all still comes down to philosophical debates.