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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Religions & Faiths > Christianity

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  #31  
Old 25-04-2015, 04:34 PM
Tobi Tobi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn
I dislike it when a post appears that says a couple
of sentences and seems to be the end all and be all and
so the whole thread should close down now.

Well, here's mine...

(drumroll)


None of this matters and is, in fact, a distraction...a clever one!

All this attention to things we really don't know about is mind candy;
entertaining mind fluff that does one thing...takes us away from
simple focus on our Beloved...call that Jesus, Krishna, Brahma, Higher Self, The Absolute,
or the All That Is, Source Energy...our link to bliss.

Anyone feeling joy and happiness discussing this Lucifer/Yahweh/
Adam/evil - or being called the "most ignorant people" ever...I don't think so.
When we are not feeling great ...which is our natural state...we are out of
'alignment' or connection with our inner Truth or Source or whatever you call It.

Nicely done ...get the humans to talk all about Lucifer and evil...that way
they will be so distracted in their intellects
they will forgot about their real desire: the Creator/God/Higher Joyous Self.

This is right out of the 'How to distract the Humans Toolbox' play book of Uncle Screwtape....
(CS Lewis' book, highly recommended to understand 'the devil's tricks'
or the lower ego self.)

I'm inclined to agree with you Miss H.
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  #32  
Old 25-04-2015, 05:13 PM
Tristran Tristran is offline
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Quote:
God has evil "DNA"
No. Its all a test.

Day 6 : create mankind

Initially everything was fine for YHWH.

Now, for YHWH to gain new recruits, He introduced dualism by giving Lucifer orders to start the Apple of Knowledge event.

Then mankind invented fire, wheel and eventually space exploration. Then mankind knew the difference between right and wrong as the sin chromosome was activated.

So both YHWH and Lucifer are good.

With dualism, when a sinner dies, if they have no faith in Yahushua and hate other people then they will reincarnate and go through the same test again.

If they forgive those sinners/enemies around them, then they have passed and will rise to the new paradise where Yahushua currently resides.
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  #33  
Old 25-04-2015, 05:28 PM
inspirit inspirit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 333xforever
Alright, so the christian will believe Lucifer was thrown down to hell by God, for trying to rise higher than God.

Lucifer separated himself from God when he declared autonomy from God and that God did not exist which he knew was a lie from the beginning.

Quote:
This means, there is a possibility that there is higher than God. This will connect later in the explanation.

God is the most high.

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So Lucifer is the source of all evil, as Christians believe.

Lucifer isn't the source of evil. He just chose evil as all men and angels can also do since we have free will.

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And everything that God creates is pure.

God himself is pure, but his creation encompasses freewill beings capable of choosing evil.

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If God created his angels, then where did this evil come from, that entered Lucifer. There must be another higher source of evil. We can refer to it as, eternity evil.

There is no source of evil. Evil is just the lack of goodness just like darkness is the lack of light, and cold is the lack of warmth.


Quote:
As stated, God will not allow anyone to rise higher than himself. This means, there must be higher realms, above heaven. Or that it is possible, to become consciously greater in power than God.

God is the most high and it is not possible to rise hire than that. However it is possible to rise to the same level as God beside Him.

Quote:
Now you may argue that Lucifer only had those thoughts, as a thirst for power. But if he has these thoughts, there must be a reason to them. That there is higher than God.

Lucifer's only reason for thinking such thoughts was total error in logic and thinking.


Quote:
Now when Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit, Lucifer said to them, you shall be like Gods. ""For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil". You will be like God. "As we are all descendants" of Adam and Eve, we are all God in our own ways...as many mystics describe. Being God must signify, knowing good and evil. So angels were not created as Gods, they only knew good, as Adam and Eve.

We are not gods. There is only one God.

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This question comes into play now: how did Lucifer become Evil?

He chose to.

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The only answers are: God has evil "DNA", or there is a higher source of evil.

God is love. He is purely good. He has no evil DNA. Evil has no source, just like darkness has no source, and coldness has no source. God being the source of all goodness dispels evil.


Quote:
Also, how did Lucifer go straight from, the highest angel in heaven, to the greatest devil known. Was this Gods jealousy who transformed him?

Lucifer wasn't the highest angel in heaven. He chose to become a devil when he chose evil and seceded from God.


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Why did the angels who followed him, not attain as much power as him?

Lucifer has no real power. The power that he and his followers have is false power. It's an illusion. It does not hold up to scrutiny. It's a bluff.

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If evil can only be evil, how can Lucifer to good things on this planet? The bible states he can deceive people by doing good.

He deceives people by appearing to do good to them. But it doesn't hold up to scrutiny. That's part of his illusion. The devil has nothing of true benefit to offer this planet other than the hard lessons learned.


Quote:
.........Also off topic. The reason why the bible is considered more of a philosophy book which you take points from is, there are multiple authors with different views, which creates many contradictions. There are also many personal opinions stated. However, I do believe the 10 commandments are to be followed. Even on a moral basis.

The bible has many human authors. Some of them made mistakes. That isn't any reason not to believe in God though. The ten commandments are a good start, but don't forget Jesus' commandments.
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  #34  
Old 25-04-2015, 06:10 PM
PeteC-UK PeteC-UK is offline
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Hi Folks..

See - there is the base and first error - to believe the TRUE god,Our Father,inhabits a body formed of DNA like your or mine...

It seems people expect this god to be like us - a MATERIAL and INDIVIDUAL form - it is NOT..From SECRET John - here is Yeshua the Christ explaining the eternal nature...

"The One rules all. Nothing has authority over it. It is the God. It is Father of everything,
Holy One The invisible one over everything. It is uncontaminated Pure light no eye can bear to look within.


The One is the Invisible Spirit. It is not right to think of it as a God or as like God.

It is more than just God.


Nothing is above it. Nothing rules it. Since everything exists within it It does not exist within anything. Since it is not dependent on anything It is eternal. It is absolutely complete and so needs nothing. It is utterly perfect Light."

Now - does that sound like a CREATURE that is formed from DNA..?..lol...Does it even sound like anything described as the god of the bible..?..read on ,if you still have doubts - THIS Father here,is NOT a creature made of dna...Ridiculous notion...

"The One is incomprehensible Perfectly free from corruption. Not “perfect”
Not “blessed” Not “divine” But superior to such concepts. Neither physical nor unphysical Neither immense nor infinitesimal It is impossible to specify in quantity or quality For it is beyond knowledge."

Its a really long,intricate,detaied explanation by Christ - but these points quoted are all relevant - should show clearly - the god of the bible is NEVER described inthese terms....Notice above - Christ has essentially just told us,Our Father can NOT even be known in "intellectual" terms - cannot be measurd quantified or explained by words..It is the SOURCE OF OUR MIND and that mind DEFINES the world - ergo,this Father is BEYOND definiton,for it is literally ALL-That-Is without seperation..

He says it is BEYOND KNOWLEGDE - in other words it cannot be intellectualised at all - but MUST be DIRECTLY EXPERIENCED to be understood..This of course,is the essence of GNOSIS...

Final part - the deal clincher so to speak - absolutely guaranteed,THIS Father and the god we know as yahweh - most definately NOT the same entity,because look here :

"The One is not a being among other beings It is vastly superior But it is not “superior.”
It is outside of realms of being and time For whatever is within realms of being was created And whatever is within time had time allotted to it The One receives nothing from anything. It simply apprehends itself in its own perfect light"

Surely its clear now then..?..The Father exists OUTSIDE space and time - is NOT a beng AMONG OTHER BEINGS...Let THAT sink in a moment...

Then recall GENESIS - where it states most clearly that this god exists WITHIN TIME - 6 days of creation HERE occur in LINEAR SEQUENCE,time IS flowing..This god of Genesis cannot be then,the Father Christ is teachng of...The god of genesis IS a "being among other beings",for he exists in his realm with other SIMILAR Angels - we know that because of the simple fact - "let US make a man after the image" - US,as in plural - yahweh is a being among other beings,and again,this directly contradicts Christs understanding...NO WAY is the god of the bible the same entity that He taught of..

Talk of DNA and the rest - is to talk of CREATURES but not the CREATOR Himself - it is to talk of clay yet fail to appreciate the Potter..This is the base error of the bible..Note : The god of the bible is a NAMED ENTITY - so understand fully then,"names" are given to CREATED FORMS - individual names,such as Yahweh,are given to INDIVUDAL CREATED FORMS..

Yet here is Christ telling us clearly that Our FATHER is beyond any such description or limitiation and ther eis none with the authoirty TO name it at all - note He Himself calls it simply the ONE,and in public only EVER termed it our Father - NEVER gives it an INDIVIDUAL name - NOWHERE can He be seen to associate the name Yahweh with HIS Father - NOWHERE does He acknowledge or recognise THAT deity - and yet plenty of places,even withn the bible He openly disavows that jewish deity,emphasises that THEIR god is NOT His Father..

How can we ever expect to find truth then,if we follow the bible narrative,bible explanation..?...If we settle for THAT god then we have done our Self a great mis service..For as seen clearly,that version is NOT in accord with the foundational things that Christ taught us of...The bible god is an individual,a creature,same as You and I - the Father is an invisible abstract spirit - a MIND that causes all existance to occur - the Father is formless,outside time and space - yahweh has a bipedal body,is a humanoform like us and inhabits a material realm with OTHER creatures,other Angels..The two descriptions are obviously incompatable - the one is a Creator,the other is a CREATUE - the One is the SOURCE of the creation,th eother is the RESULT of the creation...Let it sink in...Christ is NOT of the jewish god yahweh,has no affiliation with that diety,and taught us of a much superior and authentic Divine Presence...For those with ears to hear..






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  #35  
Old 25-04-2015, 06:16 PM
Miss Hepburn Miss Hepburn is offline
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What you say, Pete, about 'This Primal Deity' is fascinating;
blows wrathful, murderous Yahweh outta the water.
This Primal Deity is the only One that interests ME!
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Prepare yourself for the coming astral journey of death by daily riding in the balloon of God-perception.
Through delusion you are perceiving yourself as a bundle of flesh and bones, which at best is a nest of troubles.
Meditate unceasingly, that you may quickly behold yourself as the Infinite Essence, free from every form of misery. ~Paramahansa's Guru's Guru
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  #36  
Old 25-04-2015, 08:59 PM
Deepsoul Deepsoul is offline
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If I was still living in free will where I allowed myself the luxury or freedom to not be aligned and committed to complete and utter goodness ,Which I find with Jesus and God then I would still be allowing myself the opportunity to create evil ,it is in Gods full Love for me and mine for him that my true spirit is exhalted ,I have lived a life with much debauchery, slothness and sadness and believe me there is no luxury or freedom in it only darkness........So yes there is another force and it is very evil but there is its polar opposite with all the stability ,joy,purpose and fullness available to any one that is desperate ,brave,humble and wise enough to choose and know it, and to end my post I say Thankyou and Thankyou Amazing Grace.................
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  #37  
Old 25-04-2015, 09:25 PM
Deepsoul Deepsoul is offline
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Oh I also wanted to say that it truly is amazing how my life has changed for the better,and Something you said 333 about Lucifer can trick us by by posing as good is definetly seen in how we spend our time ,is it worthwhile or are you over relaxing etc,how we choose to act and react, is it coming from your heart or your ego, how we choose to dress,does it still have personal style without being overly provocative ,without the guidance and stability of a loving God we are left to roam free to an ego that really dosent understand its power or implications creating all sorts of undesirable consequences ...................And yet the fruits of worship of Goodness are like Gold and rainbows,and the deep sea, and wide open spaces and Birds singing the joy of the Lord all day long.........................AMEN
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  #38  
Old 25-04-2015, 09:44 PM
ThoughtOnFire ThoughtOnFire is offline
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333xforever,

Look into Gnostic Christianity! Demiurge... Archons... "Know thyself" AKA Gnosis...

http://gnosis.org/naghamm/nhlintro.html
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  #39  
Old 27-04-2015, 08:02 AM
Shamot
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You must step back and look at the big picture and the ultimate truth.

We are a soul in a body, which has evolved from a primal animal, believed to be from apes. This is a scientific fact. When the Source (Father) expanded into the abyss it brought with it its light (the soul). As it contracted back to the inner realm, the layer we cannot experience, these remnants remained here, in this layer we call the physical realm - the universe. The Source wants us to rejoin with it - we are the sheep that is loved above all others.

All the ascetics, prophets and sages who ever lived have felt its call. It has tried to communicate with us through these people but the nature of the animal we evolved from clouds our vision. This is why we must be critical of the things we are presented with in texts like the Bible - all information for that matter.

Elaine Pagels wrote an excellent book called "The Origins of Satan". It looks at how Satan is given the role of adversary to Jesus but through the vilification of the Jewish community, who are blamed for His crucifixion in the successive narratives. The author of Luke was a gentile and resented the superior attitude of the Jewish Christians, hence his version of the crucifixion. You will note that in the Old Testament Satan is an angel who suggests to God that Job would lose faith if he were tested. God then tests Job by letting Satan interfere with Job's life - this is when Satan becomes the one who places obstacles in people's lives. This story, is of course, meant to teach people not to lose faith. It is not the introduction of a Prince of Darkness - as some see this character now.

The other (Gnostic) approach to Satan or Lucifer is to see him as the bringer of wisdom. The Gnostics took this from the interpretation of the Garden of Eden story - the snake was sent by Sophia to free people from the malevolent demiurge Yaldaboath (Yahweh in OT). This is why the name Licifer makes reference to the morning star (Venus) - bringing the light of the sun. There is much more to these Gnostic myths but suffice to say, they are logical links if one is looking to resolve why we suffer under our creator.

What or who is Lucifer/Satan? In Mark (the first synoptic gospel written) Jesus rebukes Peter - 'get thee behind me Satan' for 'not thinking like God would, but as man does'. This is the key. We are both the good and evil. The demons Jesus cast out of people were humans who had given themselves to this realm. They are in love with this existence. It is beneficial to them to proliferate the myths we have developed in are Abrahamic faiths. I have seen these demons. They present as dark shadows with no distinguishing features. They feed on fear and conflict. It is fear and conflict that breed ego and the desire to control others. These things benefit souls that have given themselves to this realm. Consider that when 'Legion' (the demons that possed a man in one of the narratives about Jesus), was about to be cast out, they pleaded with Jesus to be cast out into swine, rather than being cast out of their place. Jesus' compassion for their blind suffering (lust for this realm) granted their wish. The swine, in shock, drowned in a river - the demons were granted their wish to return to 'place' - this world. The point of this story is about humans inability to let go of 'place' - this body, this existence. Demons are souls who have given themselves to this cause - to perpetuate the cycle of this existence.

I hope this goes some way to addressing your question & answering it.

Peace.
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  #40  
Old 30-04-2015, 02:46 AM
SeaZen SeaZen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 333xforever
No one can answer this. No matter how religious or in touch you are with God.

LOL! So whats the point?
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