What is it about Gurus ?

[Seawolf]

Originally Posted by Dream Angel

If one listens to some of what is being said by a Guru, talk of love, compassion etc... one could hear the same thing, sometimes not always ... from someone who gets a bit sentimental & philosophical , after one too many glasses of wine . Isn't wine a drink of the gods ?

just wondering.......

Dream Angel xx

Someone can think about spirituality alot and sound like they're very knowlegable. Also some can develop skills through practice that make them seem 'great', but overall I think everyone is on the same level. Like Starbuck said, we follow others because it's part of our nature, but then sometimes we realize they're just like everyone else. It feels good to think we can be on a higher level than others, but it's doesn't really make us better people.

Originally Posted by Chrysaetos

I don't think it's so much about guru's and western people, but more about humans in general and authorities. Having an authority that tells you what to do or believe saves a lot of trouble for you. Trying to think independently is always the hard way.

Nice one.... Now will you be my Guru?

[BlueSky]

My post is not about what "gurus teach but about the powers some seem to have.
I remember reading "Autobiography of a yogi" and thinking either this guy is full of it or there is something to what he says. I'm talking about the 'powers' the gurus he met had. From where I stand now, I'd say it has to do with the power of the mind.

James

[Arcturus]

one could argue that everyone is a guru to themself...as per indian guru's i would say it has more than its fair share eh, whether they speak truth is very debatable but then so it is with me. if someone does speak truth then geography is of course arbitrary.

http://www.messagefrommasters.com/En...ntic-Gurus.htm

They go off to this dangerous country, India, and there they are caught by the thousand. They are seeking comfort, somebody to say, "I am looking after you. I will be responsible for you. Do this. Do that"

Originally Posted by Chrysaetos

I don't think it's so much about guru's and western people, but more about humans in general and authorities. Having an authority that tells you what to do or believe saves a lot of trouble for you. Trying to think independently is always the hard way.

But people can also be greatly helped by a teacher. We don't tell five year olds to just think for themselves and work out mathematics all on their own. We teach them. The aim is not to destroy their independent thought but to help their minds grow and develop. That is I believe the essential difference between a genuine guru and a false cult leader. A genuine guru ultimately wants you to attain the state he has attained, and guides you to that state; whereas a cult leader just wants you to worship him and gratify his own selfishness.

So while there is a danger of losing independence of mind, if somebody has a clear realization of a higher level of consciousness then they can help transmit it to us. If they are a true guru, then all they will want to do is benefit us. This will not mean that we become an unthinking robot but that we awaken and find true freedom.

[Emmalevine]

Hmm I agree Oliness. I think there's a difference between learning from others (which of course, we all naturally have to do from birth) and attaching to others to fulfil an inner yearning. Not that either of those is 'bad' as such, but learning generally suggests becoming more independent whereas attaching to others places others in a more important, guru or celebrity role. That works for some people and they prefer not to move on any further.

Some people follow gurus and develop their own understandings and beliefs from them. I do this from reading books etc. In the past I have seen therapists for support and also to learn how to become myself and free of the past. But I don't follow their words blindly. I don't lose myself in ideas without having the independent capacity to feel what is true for myself. That is the difference in my view. I'm not so sure it's all about the nature of the guru, but how these gurus are interpreted by the people around them.

[psychoslice]

The so called Guru knows that he is like everyone else, its what is beyond the Guru that he points to, the Guru has experienced he's true inner Being, he has Realized that he is not the mind body, and all he is doing is pointing others to their own inner Being, you can know all about the experience but you really don't know until you yourself have experienced your true inner Being, or Self. The ego will hate the Guru and come up with all sorts of exscusses to belittle the Guru, the ego is happy just where it is, for where it is, it knows that its in charge of your whole life, its either you like where you are or you don't, if you do like where you are, then stay there, if you don't, then maybe you should listen to the Guru.

Originally Posted by Starbuck

Hmm I agree Oliness. I think there's a difference between learning from others (which of course, we all naturally have to do from birth) and attaching to others to fulfil an inner yearning. Not that either of those is 'bad' as such, but learning generally suggests becoming more independent whereas attaching to others places others in a more important, guru or celebrity role. That works for some people and they prefer not to move on any further.

Some people follow gurus and develop their own understandings and beliefs from them. I do this from reading books etc. In the past I have seen therapists for support and also to learn how to become myself and free of the past. But I don't follow their words blindly. I don't lose myself in ideas without having the independent capacity to feel what is true for myself. That is the difference in my view. I'm not so sure it's all about the nature of the guru, but how these gurus are interpreted by the people around them.

I have heard relying on the guru compared to trying to learn a foreign language. If you learn it just for business or travel it is hard and takes quite a few years. But people tend to pick up a language much more quickly if they have a lover who speaks that language. By falling in love they just put so much more effort in and gain an intuitive grasp of the language through their relationship with a person who speaks it.

In the same way it is said, you learn the language of the Self much faster through devotion to somebody who has already realized it. That realization with a genuine Master has a power and a real communication that merely reading a book doesn't. Or even if you take it as idolizing someone the way an aspiring footballer might be inspired by a famous football player. Actually being in a close guru/disciple relationship has a much greater effect, and pushes you beyond yourself much quicker than if you try to make the whole journey alone.

I guess it's because people from the West are refreshed to hear of a sort of Spirituality different from the ones they are familiar with, especially knowing that this particular teaching has no "fear" involved...

[Xan]

Starbuck: I'm not sure that following gurus actually means any different on the surface to following a rock star. It's the experience of craving/desiring that other person to complete us.

On the surface it may seem this way, but a genuine devotional relationship with a guru can't be known by external signs. It's deep and subtle and mystical and shakes one to their very bones.

There are increasing numbers of people in the world who are awake and aware in the true self - that tree of knowledge of the op.

Gurus aren't simply enlightened but have subtle powers to awaken others through direct transmission. It's something that can only be known directly through one's own intimate experience.

Of course there are false gurus like there are false anything else... but the real ones are an amazing gift for some lucky folks.


Xan