Biblical hermeneutics

[Reverend Keith]

Fear and love are two approaches to God that are taken at different stages of consciousness. At the stage in which God is the divine judge and supreme power, our natural response is fear and guilt. The earlier Gnostics would say that this God who threatens and punishes is actually a different God. But Valentinus would say he is the same God, but seen through the lens of a lower position in the ego. He is the projection of our own strengths and weaknesses.

As we become acquainted with divine love, fear of God becomes completely inappropriate.

By this love is perfected with us, so that we may have confidence in the day of judgment, because just as Jesus is, so also are we in this world. There is no fear in love, but perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears punishment has not been perfected in love. (1John 4:17-18, NET)

Originally Posted by Reverend Keith

Fear and love are two approaches to God that are taken at different stages of consciousness. At the stage in which God is the divine judge and supreme power, our natural response is fear and guilt. The earlier Gnostics would say that this God who threatens and punishes is actually a different God. But Valentinus would say he is the same God, but seen through the lens of a lower position in the ego. He is the projection of our own strengths and weaknesses.

As we become acquainted with divine love, fear of God becomes completely inappropriate.

By this love is perfected with us, so that we may have confidence in the day of judgment, because just as Jesus is, so also are we in this world. There is no fear in love, but perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears punishment has not been perfected in love. (1John 4:17-18, NET)

Hello Rev. Keith!!

There are two fears specific to the Bible in relation to context. But fear and love are synonymous in their intended meaning.

One could say, as gathered from the below article, that there's a fear of the consequences of either God or man. Some of, or at least a paragraph reinforces your input (The fear that is absent from genuine love is the fear of the whip in the hands of the master; the dread of the chastisement which comes to the disobedient). The final comment in the article talks about the fearlessness that the Lord had in facing his adversaries. One entails fearing the other a little less, the consequences of not obeying God are far greater than that of facing man's consequences/or opposition, but first a short Rabbinic story:

Rabbi Jochanan was ill. "His disciples went in to visit him. On beholding them he began to weep. His disciples said to him, `O Lamp of Israel, righthand pillar, mighty hammer! Wherefore dost thou weep?' He replied to them, `If I was being led into the presence of a human king who today is here and tomorrow in the grave, who, if he were wrathful against me, his anger would not be eternal, who, if he imprisoned me, the imprisonment would not be eternal, who, if he condemned me to death, the death would not be for ever, and whom I can appease with words and bribe with money even then I would weep. But now, when I am being led into the presence of the King of kings, the Holy One, blessed is he, who lives and endures for all eternity, who, if he be wrathful against me, his anger is eternal, who, if he imprisoned me, the imprisonment would be for ever, who, if he condemned me to death, the death would be for ever, and whom I cannot appease with words or bribe with money--nay more, when before me lie two ways, one the way of the Garden of Eden and the other the way of Gehenna, and I know not in which I am to be led--shall I not weep?'" -- W. Barclay

Are We to Fear God?

by Eric Lyons, M.Min.

http://www.apologeticspress.org/apco...=6&article=769

Edited by SF Staff

The wrath of God is not stored up for the common person who slips with a curse word now and then or gets ticked off at his neighbor.

(Mind's Eye)

I believe a lack of loving, and we are commanded to love, it isn't just a suggestion) and hate in a more viral form is all from the same source and is all disobedience to Jesus' command and is all sin and is all spiritual poison. (My opinion.)

My opinion is that the "wrath of God" (which smacks of nurturing a grudge IMHO) is not stored up by God to unleash on anyone.

There are negative results of choosing to hate rather than love and one of those forms of hatred is to refuse to trust and love God who is love and who is completely trustworthy and certainly has no need to deceive anyone. Quite the contrary, God tries to deliver us from our own self deception.

Like mental illness, spiritual illness causes confusion and vain imaginings. I was once caught up in such as a way of life and my spiritual disorientation caused me to have no interest in God or spirituality.

God suddenly delivered me gently and lovingly and replaced my diseased heart with a new one. A spiritual rebirth was given me.

I think God may sorrow greatly for our tendency to destroy ourselves through separating from our loving Father; the very source of life, like the Prodigal Son. But I believe he (symbolically) stands in the doorway longing and waiting for us to come home, if we will.

Hating our sin but loving us sinners.

I was spiritually cleansed (Holy Spirit Baptism?) the instant before God "spoke to me". And I suspect only that which is of love can exist in the eternal realm. I think we must be "changed" in the twinkling of an eye when this present world ceases to be or else cease to be along with it.

I hasten to say I received no spiritual revelation concerning this. It is just my thought, right or wrong. It was only revealed to me that if I chose the path God showed me I would come to him in the Light.

Since I have often stumbled and failed to completely follow that path I believe I must repent and allow God to continue to cleanse me day by day.

I wonder if this is not one application of Jesus washing the disciples feet and telling Peter he does not need a complete bath but only the washing of his feet soiled by walking in the world.

John 13: Jesus said, He that is washed neededth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, but not all."

I know that John says Jesus is referring to Judas not being clean, but I feel there are other applications that may be relevant to ever individual life. Jewish thought accepts multiple applications of scripture such as : "Out of Egypt have I called my son." Applying to both the Exodus of the ancient Hebrews and Jesus returning from Egypt to Nazareth as a child. (Matthew 2:15 and Hosea 11:1)

I don't like to think of cowering before the wrath of God but the more positive thought in the old hymn, "Set your hopes on things eternal, and hold to God's unchanging hand." The hand of a dear Father who loves us.

I believe there is only one "church" (those called out). It is spiritual not a man made organization. there are many earthly institutions we call churches and members of these earthly organizations may or may not be of the spiritual church. It is the spiritual condition of the individual as relating to God that is the criteria for being of the spiritual church and only God knows that.

I believe there are members of all the earthly churches who belong to The Church. I don't believe we are saved by any organization though they can help to guide and instruct in Christian behavior.

I believe salvation is highly individual.

My take on God's justice:

Romans 3:20-24
King James Version (KJV)
20Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Originally Posted by Mary Baker

I believe there is only one "church" (those called out). It is spiritual not a man made organization. there are many earthly institutions we call churches and members of these earthly organizations may or may not be of the spiritual church. It is the spiritual condition of the individual as relating to God that is the criteria for being of the spiritual church and only God knows that.

I believe there are members of all the earthly churches who belong to The Church. I don't believe we are saved by any organization though they can help to guide and instruct in Christian behavior.

I believe salvation is highly individual.

Salvation is individual and not so corporate, I agree. Often salvation will divide and not bring people together. This is a subject that I am having with my daughter now, as she's changing her way of thinking in her final years of academics in "secular institutions." She was such the "I'm the light of the world," or "it's up to me to bring salvation to others who are in desperate need for the good news." Now she thinks that salvation and having a relationship is highly individual and personal, and in my view is suffering from non-rock-a-boatus. I think that part of the craftiness the devil works is shutting the mouth of the believer as much as opening the mouth of the unbeliever.... anyhoot...

Last Sunday, our Pastor spoke about the "church." Some interesting statistics, given that church attendance, financial contributions, and influence has been declining in the U.S., but spreading like wild fire in Muslim nations, China, and Africa.

Also another interesting stat was given, for FYI, in that the decline is mostly happening in liberal churches, and not so in Bible centered churches believing and preaching the entire Scriptures as divinely inspired and infallible (aggressive fundamentalist that're evangelistic and missionary oriented), as their membership is more than twice the number of mildly conservative or liberal churches.

I guess that this shows the consequences when deciding to water down the gospel.

Woot Woot started the class. And what a time I had. First we took the plunge into some of the books of the Bible, asking the questions, how were these books in the Bible decided, or why were others rejected? We are now studying the councils that decided the Canon! We may even breeze through a Lost Book or the ones that didn't make the cut, showing us why those books were not included. Time will tell...

This is going to be a great course. We took some notes, put a simple process down on paper, than applied it to scripture. It really has been making a difference in how I understand the meaning in basic examples.

Now there's a few books that I need read for preparation for next week. Great course and recommend it to all.

Cya round