Does God exist

[muzamilsa]

According to my religion god is in the form of pure light it does not have any shape or form, its light of love.

[r6r6]

ianalexanderr--Ok before there is 2,

Huh?

2 has eternally existed as no less than:

1) non-occupied space and,

2) occupied space, irrespective of shape/form/pattern of occupied space.

and the universe is divided into 2 - that is, that which is inside and that which is outside, there was only 1.

Yes these two are eternally existent. Physical/energy--- aka occupied space ---cannot be created nor destroyed.

And of course non-occupied space cannot be created nor destroyed.

Macro-infinite, non-occupied space embraces and is shaped by, the finite, occupied space Universe, that, defines the macro-infinite, non-occupied space from within.

r6

[adamkade]

Originally Posted by metal68

I read this and it seems sadly to have a ring of truth about it.

If God exists then he/she/it would have to be highly complex to have created reality, therefore wouldn't there have to be something even more complex to have created God and so on..

If we say something must have created the universe/s and everything has to have a start then doesn't that apply to God?? Something must have created God surely? If the universe needs a prime mover then surely wouldn't God?

We cant accept a universe without a beginning but we accept a God as something without?

How could God always have been??

Yep. And that is a Divine dichotomy. Well done. But where does it say that something can be two things at once? Maybe God was the creator and maybe God created him/herself?

Or maybe He/She has always been here. Maybe everything is perpetual and has never not been. The concept of time being linear may not be the case. Maybe there is not time. Or maybe there is time and perhaps time has always been here. Perhaps in other realms of reality there is no movement there is only being, and so therefore, time has no meaning.

Just some thoughts.

[r6r6]

Originally Posted by muzamilsa

According to my religion god is in the form of pure light it does not have any shape or form, its light of love.

At minimum we humans associate a sine-wave pattern with;

1) fermionic matter and,

2) bosonic forces ergo the latter specifically in regards to EMRadiation, whether as visible light or invisible light( UV and infra-red ).

We have knowledge of the following sets of occupied space;

1) non-quantized and non-quantifed set indirectly accepted,

2) quantized, invisible set indirectly observed,

3) quantized set directly observed.

r6

r6

[metal68]

I still cant wrap my head around something not having a beginning, or there never being an end to something. Its mindbending stuff really.

I watched Horizon the other night, it was on about the Cosmic dawn, the period that followed the big bang. There just didn't seem to be anything resembling the hand of God in it, it just followed the laws of physics

[QuantumKev]

Originally Posted by metal68

I still cant wrap my head around something not having a beginning, or there never being an end to something. Its mindbending stuff really.

I watched Horizon the other night, it was on about the Cosmic dawn, the period that followed the big bang. There just didn't seem to be anything resembling the hand of God in it, it just followed the laws of physics

I can relate to your quandary metal, I really can. And I have been working on actively advancing spiritually for over 25 years now. And it honestly seems that the more I learn, the less I know. I can tell you the realization I have come to:

Whatever Power created this universe - and I do believe that there is some Higher Consciousness, or Spirit, or Energy, or something - is beyond fully comprehension given the limited hardware (brains) and software (thoughts, ideas, beliefs) that we currently have. It's rather like asking a 3 year old to conceptualize and describe what a mortgage is : it just does not compute, because the child doesn't have the appropriate 'software' running if you will, and the hardware (brain) has not yet reached performance levels that can support concepts like compound interest - or heck, even ownership really!

You referenced the big bang - I have studied it quite a bit, along with quantum physics, and other scientific theories, and it always goes back to - but what started IT? Ok, so quantum fluctuations gave birth to the big bang - but what set them off...? What created the fabric of space time? If we say it just "is" and has always been, how is that better or more "logical" than positing that some higher consciousness created it? It's really just kicking the metaphysical can down the road.

I have been mediating a lot on deep issues lately, and the thing I have gotten is that right now, given the "equipment" we have, it just isn't really possible to completely understand this stuff at an intellectual level. However, spiritually speaking, it IS possible to have a direct experience of "knowing" or "being" that transcends the mind, and THAT is how we can 'touch' God/Spirit/Creator if you will. This is all just my humble opinion by the way -I really know little to nothing.

I am praying - and I think many others are too - for some kind of "upgrade" if you will (you can read some stuff online about DNA upgrades, Wave X, etc - all to be taken with a grain of salt) that will allow us to get to that next level of spiritual understanding. I like to believe that something will one day happen to unlock potentials that we have lost in our rush to become - ahem - 'civilized'. But for now, I have to be content knowing - not intellectually speaking, but on a spiritual level - that there is a Higher Power acting in the universe, acting in my life, and that while I may not be able to completely explain it, I can witness its wonders all around me, and even more so when I can turn my mind off and let my spirit have some 'quality time.'

The path is not an easy one, finding Truth, finding the true nature of God and the Universe, finding ourselves - but then no one ever said it was. I wish you many blessings on your continued Quest for Truth metal...

QuantumKev

[r6r6]

So many people misunderstand and mis-comprehend what the big bang theory is exactly.

The big bang in no way means that a finite occupied space Universe exists eternally.

What ever the big bang may be, it is just a phase of an eternally existent finite, occupied space Universe.

Whatever led to to what the big bang actually was, occupied space prior to the big bang. Those who dont grasp this are lacking in rational, logical common sense. imho

1) Metaphysical-1,
------------------
2) Non-occupied space,

3) Occupied space.

Simple version of the most comprehensive whole set. Begin with the whole and no part can excluded.

r6

[inspirit]

Good question. If God is without a beginning, and God created the universe, then what did God do before the universe existed? And what suddenly prompted him to create the universe?

I think the reason this is confusing is because we erroneously think of the universe as existing within time, when in fact time only exists within the universe. In other words, God first existed outside of time and creation. Then God created the universe, and with the universe came time and the beginning of eternity.

[r6r6]

..."The big bang in no way means that a finite occupied space Universe did not exist eternally"...

I mistyped previously and correct myself here above.

The big bang scenario is in some ways like the evolution scenario;s, in that we dont really know what exactly happen, at some time(s) in the past.

We can have various scenarios arise from evidence EX;

1) o>O>o>O> and eternally existent UniVerse that expands then contracts then expands then contracts,

2) multiverse ideas where we have two or more local universe's that spawn new local universe(s)....(u)(U)(u).....here again, the whole set of multiverse's sum-total as the one Universe aka God{ess}

All local universe's are interrconnected by gravity at minimum i.e. there cannot exist multiple local universe's in isolation, not connected minimally by gravity.

r6

Originally Posted by r6r6r

So many people misunderstand and mis-comprehend what the big bang theory is exactly.
The big bang in no way means that a finite occupied space Universe did not exist eternally.
What ever the big bang may be, it is just a phase of an eternally existent finite, occupied space Universe.
Whatever led to to what the big bang actually was, occupied space prior to the big bang. Those who dont grasp this are lacking in rational, logical common sense. imho

1) Metaphysical-1,
------------------
2) Non-occupied space,

3) Occupied space.

Simple version of the most comprehensive whole set. Begin with the whole and no part can excluded.

r6

[adamkade]

Originally Posted by metal68

I still cant wrap my head around something not having a beginning, or there never being an end to something. Its mindbending stuff really.

I watched Horizon the other night, it was on about the Cosmic dawn, the period that followed the big bang. There just didn't seem to be anything resembling the hand of God in it, it just followed the laws of physics

I am the opposite. I find it hard to bend my mind to accept that there is a beginning or end.