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  #11  
Old 04-02-2017, 03:26 PM
Joe Mc Joe Mc is offline
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Endlessness with a beginning.

Namaste.
Brahman is a totally intangible and unimaginable concept for any level of the mind, intellect or conscious awareness to grasp.

Self-inquiry and Jnana Yoga can only lead one to the door of the "I Am"...it may even open it to reveal what exists beyond, but it is up to the aspirant to traverse through it to reach the 'other side' of perception.

No book, no philosophy, no amount of knowledge can bring enlightenment and that is why 'advaita' is usually followed very closely by the word 'vedanta' which basically means 'after this, you're on your own'.

The way through that door is by doing [i]yoga!


I'm not talking about physical postures here, but other paths which take over where the path of Jnana Yoga ends...for some, this is Raja Yoga (Meditation)...for others, it is Bhakti Yoga (love)...for others it is Kundalini Yoga or Tantra Yoga...whatever it takes the individual person to transcend the mind...transcend learning and knowledge about 'what is'.

Like Starman said, people will choose (or the path chooses them) whatever fits their personality and seeing as how everybody's personality is different, then every path will be different...even though this is all mithya as well.

However, a bit of background info about Adi Shankaracharya...the first 'Jnana Yogi':

https://vedanet.com/2012/06/13/the-f...hankaracharya/[/quote]

This is a very nice post Necro thank you for sharing. It makes me think of the
cosmos like a mirror shining back on life..i cant explain it too well in words, probably the reason why i sing alot and write poetry..as i like those forms of expression. Yes life is a reflection of cosmic principles being played out against the back-drop of endless love ? What we call love. :)
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And you won't find that Love comes easy but that Love is always right.

All Intellect falls prey to Love's Glory ! Rumi

He Made the Lock, He also Made the Key ! Rumi
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  #12  
Old 04-02-2017, 03:27 PM
Joe Mc Joe Mc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Mc
Namaste.
Brahman is a totally intangible and unimaginable concept for any level of the mind, intellect or conscious awareness to grasp.

Self-inquiry and Jnana Yoga can only lead one to the door of the "I Am"...it may even open it to reveal what exists beyond, but it is up to the aspirant to traverse through it to reach the 'other side' of perception.

No book, no philosophy, no amount of knowledge can bring enlightenment and that is why 'advaita' is usually followed very closely by the word 'vedanta' which basically means 'after this, you're on your own'.

The way through that door is by doing [i]yoga!


I'm not talking about physical postures here, but other paths which take over where the path of Jnana Yoga ends...for some, this is Raja Yoga (Meditation)...for others, it is Bhakti Yoga (love)...for others it is Kundalini Yoga or Tantra Yoga...whatever it takes the individual person to transcend the mind...transcend learning and knowledge about 'what is'.

Like Starman said, people will choose (or the path chooses them) whatever fits their personality and seeing as how everybody's personality is different, then every path will be different...even though this is all mithya as well.

However, a bit of background info about Adi Shankaracharya...the first 'Jnana Yogi':

https://vedanet.com/2012/06/13/the-f...hankaracharya/

This is a very nice post Necro thank you for sharing. It makes me think of the
cosmos like a mirror shining back on life..i cant explain it too well in words, probably the reason why i sing alot and write poetry..as i like those forms of expression. Yes life is a reflection of cosmic principles being played out against the back-drop of endless love ? What we call love. :)[/quote]
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And you won't find that Love comes easy but that Love is always right.

All Intellect falls prey to Love's Glory ! Rumi

He Made the Lock, He also Made the Key ! Rumi
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  #13  
Old 04-02-2017, 05:53 PM
jimrich jimrich is offline
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Angel1

Please do not see this as a challenge, attack or insult...........
Quote:
Originally Posted by sky123
' I am ' is pure awareness...
Is this your own, personal experience? Can you say or silently think/feel = "I am pure Awareness." ....or whatever term, spoken or silent, describes your own experience of That.... or are you repeating concepts that you learned from somewhere outside of your self?
Many folks can speak of non-duality, Advaita, the I am, Oneness, Unity, Nothing, Everything, the Absolute, Boundlessness in quite eloquent terms BUT very few can or will say what their own, personal experience of such things is so it causes me to wonder if these spokespersons have ever actually EXPERIENCED: That, It, the Absolute, non-dual, Boundless, Source, etc. Have you?
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  #14  
Old 04-02-2017, 06:25 PM
jimrich jimrich is offline
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Angel1 This is it

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Necromancer
Self-inquiry and Jnana Yoga can only lead one to the door of the "I Am"...it may even open it to reveal what exists beyond, but it is up to the aspirant to traverse through it to reach the 'other side' of perception.
The teachers and spokespersons that I follow these days claim that this is it and that I (I almost wrote 'we') already are "there" - just as I am, right now. They say that there is no: path, door or a "beyond" - just this right here as it is NOW. I am "there"! If I sit here suspecting that I am not "there" yet and don't feel especially "enlightened" that is the Source, in the form of Jim, feeling unenlightened. All of this is Source or That JUST AS IT IS RIGHT NOW. So these teachers do not speak of = going somewhere, taking up a practice, like yoga or meditation, walking any path, sitting with a guru, reading such and such books or any thing other than to allow me to know that this is it just as it is and that I already am what so many others PROMISE I'll be or find if I follow a path, self inquire, meditate, enter an Ashram, find a guru, etc. I followed this "Who am I?" thing for many years but NEVER found the Source or Self but, listening to Tony Parsons and some other "here and now" teachers has shown me that I am That right now and have always been and always will be - just plain old, normal, sometimes dull, depressed, frightened, hungry, horny, bored or excited me - yet totally complete and whole just as I am - here and now. What a relief to be told that this is it and it's OK just as it is! All my life I believed that some day, if I was lucky, I might be "saved" and find a happier, more satisfying life somewhere and somehow never knowing or being told that THIS IS IT, JUST AS IT IS. LOL, I would not have believed nor accepting such a teaching back when I was young, angry, frightened and desperate for a solution to a miserable life. It would never have occurred to me that the life I was having was GOOD ENOUGH and that everything was OK just as it is.

Quote:
No book, no philosophy, no amount of knowledge can bring enlightenment and that is why 'advaita' is usually followed very closely by the word 'vedanta' which basically means 'after this, you're on your own'.
Whew, I am so happy that some modern teachers have finally pointed out that there is no "after this", no "you" to get somewhere nor a "before this" but only this here and now so there is no path and no future to "hopefully" find. It's here - right now!

Quote:
The way through that door is by doing yoga!
My teachers might say, "Do yoga or whatever you wish BUT it won't get you any closer to who and what you are RIGHT NOW!" You ARE that/this!

Quote:
I'm not talking about physical postures here, but other paths which take over where the path of Jnana Yoga ends...for some, this is Raja Yoga (Meditation)...for others, it is Bhakti Yoga (love)...for others it is Kundalini Yoga or Tantra Yoga...whatever it takes the individual person to transcend the mind...transcend learning and knowledge about 'what is'.
Do all that stuff if you like but you already are "what is". You have become convinced, by other deluded folks, that you are NOT already "IT" so you may need to go on and on with practices and paths until it finally hits you that THIS IS IT and that there is no 'you' to get something or go somewhere - YOU ARE IT!

Quote:
Like Starman said, people will choose (or the path chooses them) whatever fits their personality and seeing as how everybody's personality is different, then every path will be different...even though this is all mithya as well.
I am so very happy that the new teachers DO NOT talk about "paths" and personalities!
google these folks: John Wheeler, Jim Newman, Tony Parsons, Robert Wolfe, Natalie Gray, Charlie Hayes, Rupert Spira, Kenneth Madden, Richard Sylvester, Nathan Gil, Lisa Cairns, Mooji, Jeff Foster and each of those links will take you to even more pure non-duality spokespersons...........good luck
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  #15  
Old 04-02-2017, 07:12 PM
sky123 sky123 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimrich
Please do not see this as a challenge, attack or insult...........

Is this your own, personal experience? Can you say or silently think/feel = "I am pure Awareness." ....or whatever term, spoken or silent, describes your own experience of That.... or are you repeating concepts that you learned from somewhere outside of your self?
Many folks can speak of non-duality, Advaita, the I am, Oneness, Unity, Nothing, Everything, the Absolute, Boundlessness in quite eloquent terms BUT very few can or will say what their own, personal experience of such things is so it causes me to wonder if these spokespersons have ever actually EXPERIENCED: That, It, the Absolute, non-dual, Boundless, Source, etc. Have you?



Yes I have experienced ' Pure Awareness ' many times.
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  #16  
Old 05-02-2017, 01:30 AM
Shivani Devi Shivani Devi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimrich
The teachers and spokespersons that I follow these days claim that this is it and that I (I almost wrote 'we') already are "there" - just as I am, right now. They say that there is no: path, door or a "beyond" - just this right here as it is NOW. I am "there"! If I sit here suspecting that I am not "there" yet and don't feel especially "enlightened" that is the Source, in the form of Jim, feeling unenlightened. All of this is Source or That JUST AS IT IS RIGHT NOW. So these teachers do not speak of = going somewhere, taking up a practice, like yoga or meditation, walking any path, sitting with a guru, reading such and such books or any thing other than to allow me to know that this is it just as it is and that I already am what so many others PROMISE I'll be or find if I follow a path, self inquire, meditate, enter an Ashram, find a guru, etc. I followed this "Who am I?" thing for many years but NEVER found the Source or Self but, listening to Tony Parsons and some other "here and now" teachers has shown me that I am That right now and have always been and always will be - just plain old, normal, sometimes dull, depressed, frightened, hungry, horny, bored or excited me - yet totally complete and whole just as I am - here and now. What a relief to be told that this is it and it's OK just as it is! All my life I believed that some day, if I was lucky, I might be "saved" and find a happier, more satisfying life somewhere and somehow never knowing or being told that THIS IS IT, JUST AS IT IS. LOL, I would not have believed nor accepting such a teaching back when I was young, angry, frightened and desperate for a solution to a miserable life. It would never have occurred to me that the life I was having was GOOD ENOUGH and that everything was OK just as it is.


Whew, I am so happy that some modern teachers have finally pointed out that there is no "after this", no "you" to get somewhere nor a "before this" but only this here and now so there is no path and no future to "hopefully" find. It's here - right now!


My teachers might say, "Do yoga or whatever you wish BUT it won't get you any closer to who and what you are RIGHT NOW!" You ARE that/this!


Do all that stuff if you like but you already are "what is". You have become convinced, by other deluded folks, that you are NOT already "IT" so you may need to go on and on with practices and paths until it finally hits you that THIS IS IT and that there is no 'you' to get something or go somewhere - YOU ARE IT!


I am so very happy that the new teachers DO NOT talk about "paths" and personalities!
google these folks: John Wheeler, Jim Newman, Tony Parsons, Robert Wolfe, Natalie Gray, Charlie Hayes, Rupert Spira, Kenneth Madden, Richard Sylvester, Nathan Gil, Lisa Cairns, Mooji, Jeff Foster and each of those links will take you to even more pure non-duality spokespersons...........good luck
Thank you Jim, but I guess this is the whole delineation between the 'new age gurus' and the 'old gurus'.

While you are busy studying all of those teachers, I study Patanjali, Swami Svatmarama, Adi Shankaracharya and others.

So, again, it all goes back to 'individual bent'.

If everybody has already realised they have achieved Samadhi and are ALREADY in that state from noble actions (possibly meditation) from a previous birth, then there is no need for any spiritual practice because they are already there. This is all well and good.

But what of those people who do not realise it? who are not there? who cannot see it? what of them?

No amount of saying 'you are that' is going to make them magically or miraculously realise it for themselves.

Some people require sadhana (spiritual practice) and some people do not. Never an agreement will be reached or never the twain shall meet.

I put my faith in those who started the whole thing off.
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  #17  
Old 05-02-2017, 01:34 AM
Shivani Devi Shivani Devi is offline
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Let's just cut to the chase and put this VERY simply.

Jim = NEO Advaitin
Necro = Advaita Vedantin

Two entirely different schools of thought.
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  #18  
Old 05-02-2017, 03:49 AM
jimrich jimrich is offline
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Angel1

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Necromancer
Thank you Jim, but I guess this is the whole delineation between the 'new age gurus' and the 'old gurus'.
While you are busy studying all of those teachers, I study Patanjali, Swami Svatmarama, Adi Shankaracharya and others.
So, again, it all goes back to 'individual bent'.
I agree with you there and I've not met a single "new" guru who says that one system is BETTER than another. What they will say is that practices and methods are NOT NECESSARY but none of them say, "Don't do such and such."

Quote:
If everybody has already realised they have achieved Samadhi and are ALREADY in that state from noble actions (possibly meditation) from a previous birth, then there is no need for any spiritual practice because they are already there.

The new teachers would say that "everybody" (whoever that is?) is already "there" (wherever that is?) - always were and always will be - thus no need to "practice", BUT some of us don't know that so we become "Seekers" who then go to find out that we always were and always will be the Infinite Source or whatever it's called. There is no requirement that a Seeker do or not do such and such.

Quote:
But what of those people who do not realise it? who are not there? who cannot see it? what of them?
They, as the Infinite Supreme, just go on seeking or not seeking!

Quote:
No amount of saying 'you are that' is going to make them magically or miraculously realise it for themselves.
Pointers are not meant to "miraculously" do anything! Pointers are simply offerings for whoever can use or grasp them. No demands or PROMISES!

Quote:
Some people require sadhana (spiritual practice) and some people do not.
And so there are many pointers and systems for those who need or want them - or not. Ramana Maharshi made it clear that all of the scriptures and teachings were meant to WORK FOR a wide assortment of temperaments and Seekers.

Quote:
Never an agreement will be reached or never the twain shall meet.
No need for an agreement! To each his own. There is no "twain" - just Infinite Oneness appearing as: "twain".

Quote:
I put my faith in those who started the whole thing off.
Cool!

Quote:
Jim = NEO Advaitin
Necro = Advaita Vedantin
Two entirely different schools of thought.
LOL, different yet EQUAL!
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  #19  
Old 05-02-2017, 04:05 AM
Shivani Devi Shivani Devi is offline
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In a way, Jim it also has a lot to do with my whole 'religious conditioning' as well.

Not only am I an Advaitin, but I also happen to be a Hindu....I know, just more labels..but please bear with me here.

In the Hindu teachings, we are now in the age of Kali Yuga - the age of discord and disquiet.

It is much harder for those in this age to understand these principles and realise the truth than it was in any age which preceded it.

It is said that in Kali Yuga, people will all turn to these new-age teachings which are only watered down translations and opinions of the original material, bearing little or no relevance to it.

In Kali Yuga, people will believe they don't have to do anything to get enlightened because they 'already are'...but whether they are or not remains to be seen.

In Kali Yuga, teachings get corrupted, twisted and perverted because people will say "society has CHANGED and so the teachings must change to keep up and be more relevant in today's society"...however, the teachings are timeless. They apply to anybody, anywhere and any time.

People will say they are old and outdated and a whole new philosophy must be created. They will say that people have/are evolving and are much different now to how they were say, 500 years ago.

It is Kali Yuga, so how can humanity be evolving? seriously. It is said in the scriptures "in Kali Yuga, these scriptures will either be ignored or fiddled with SO much, they will bear little to no resemblance to the original document because this is what Kali Yuga does! It is what it's all about - people in their ignorance, thinking they know much better than the saints and sages of old because 'society has changed'...newsflash...no it hasn't.

So, I am just putting it down to being Kali Yuga now.
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  #20  
Old 05-02-2017, 08:28 AM
jimrich jimrich is offline
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Wink

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Necromancer
So, I am....
Cool! So, who is this 'I'? ....Who are you?
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