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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Non Duality

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  #1  
Old 23-12-2016, 06:49 PM
n2mec n2mec is offline
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Pure Consciousness

Conceptual thinking cease to exist and all IS. No contender for the push or pull, being steps forward, regains a dominant hold over mind, ever so brief.
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  #2  
Old 23-12-2016, 07:35 PM
SecretDreams333 SecretDreams333 is offline
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its exciting isn't it ! :-)
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  #3  
Old 23-12-2016, 11:08 PM
Ground Ground is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n2mec
Conceptual thinking cease to exist and all IS. No contender for the push or pull, being steps forward, regains a dominant hold over mind, ever so brief.
Well yes conceptual thinking and even perception may cease, but that is just another mode of consciousness, why "pure"?
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Old 23-12-2016, 11:45 PM
A human Being A human Being is offline
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'Pure consciousness' is an interesting expression - my initial reaction is to think, 'Well, consciousness is always pure, isn't it?' It may seem that it's tainted by anger, sadness, regret, guilt, etc., (etc., etc...), but in truth it's eternally untouched by all of its manifestations - all forms are subject to birth and death, but consciousness alone remains.

Though I still consider myself to be a bit of a noob when it comes to non-duality, even though I've been chewing it over for at least a couple of years. Still kinda baffles me, tbh, because it appears that there is duality - the creator and the created, the permanent and the impermanent. I think (well, I hope) that it's slowly starting to sink in that true understanding doesn't happen on the level of conceptual thinking, though I don't mean to suggest that it's wrong to attempt to conceptualise this understanding, to try to communicate it to others by way of conceptual thinking. It's just important to recognise its limits, I feel.
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Old 24-12-2016, 12:28 AM
FallingLeaves FallingLeaves is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A human Being
'Pure consciousness' is an interesting expression - my initial reaction is to think, 'Well, consciousness is always pure, isn't it?' It may seem that it's tainted by anger, sadness, regret, guilt, etc., (etc., etc...), but in truth it's eternally untouched by all of its manifestations - all forms are subject to birth and death, but consciousness alone remains.

Though I still consider myself to be a bit of a noob when it comes to non-duality, even though I've been chewing it over for at least a couple of years. Still kinda baffles me, tbh, because it appears that there is duality - the creator and the created, the permanent and the impermanent. I think (well, I hope) that it's slowly starting to sink in that true understanding doesn't happen on the level of conceptual thinking, though I don't mean to suggest that it's wrong to attempt to conceptualise this understanding, to try to communicate it to others by way of conceptual thinking. It's just important to recognise its limits, I feel.

while there may be a creator and a created, a permanent and an impermanent... the map you draw of it is something you create, in your own mind. It is a part of your perception. For you, whether you perceive the difference between things depends on whether you have a map that describes the difference between things. That is to say, to be dualistic you just draw a line in the sand and say 'this is one thing and this is another'. Then you have something akin to a map, with some terrain indicated on it.

Sometimes, at that point you will also be engaged in choosing one side over the other in some ways, for example most people would think a creator 'superior' to the created, or the permanent 'superior' to the impermanent.
you might also start thinking that 'up and down' were opposites, for example.

But if you didn't have a map that indicated the two things were different to begin with, you also wouldn't need to start annotating it with choices about how you like or dislike each of the two things relative to the other, and then starting to go to the effort of learning how to attract the one you like and get rid of the one you don't.

So anyway in my mind, if you wanted to be nondualistic it isn't a matter of nondualism being a learned behavior, you simply unlearn the idea of drawing lines in the sand.
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Old 24-12-2016, 07:35 AM
wstein wstein is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n2mec
Conceptual thinking cease to exist and all IS. No contender for the push or pull, being steps forward, regains a dominant hold over mind, ever so brief.
It doesn't have to be 'so brief'. One can learn to lengthen those periods or even make them last for extended periods.
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Old 24-12-2016, 08:17 AM
Shivani Devi Shivani Devi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n2mec
Conceptual thinking cease to exist and all IS. No contender for the push or pull, being steps forward, regains a dominant hold over mind, ever so brief.
Yes, it is the total awareness of the whole mechanism of perception, going from a subjective to a relative state. There is no existence, neither internal nor external - no karma, no dharma and not even moksha (liberation) - there is no experience because there's no experience-er. I, too only feel the joy, love and bliss briefly because I tend to flick the whole 'off switch' when I need to focus on 'life things' and it's a habit I am trying to get out of.
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Old 24-12-2016, 08:38 AM
Ground Ground is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A human Being
'Pure consciousness' is an interesting expression - my initial reaction is to think, 'Well, consciousness is always pure, isn't it?' It may seem that it's tainted by anger, sadness, regret, guilt, etc., (etc., etc...), but in truth it's eternally untouched by all of its manifestations - all forms are subject to birth and death, but consciousness alone remains.
I think 'pure consciousness' may express 2 views:
Either a dualism, i.e. 'pure' in contrast to 'impure' and that seems to be the sense that is expressed here since conceptual thinking is explicitly excluded Or
'purity' being the property of consciousness like wetness is the property of water.
In the latter case conceptual thinking is just an aspect of purity and nothing, not even anger, sadness, regret, guilt, etc, is excluded from the sphere of purity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by A human Being
Though I still consider myself to be a bit of a noob when it comes to non-duality, even though I've been chewing it over for at least a couple of years. Still kinda baffles me, tbh, because it appears that there is duality - the creator and the created, the permanent and the impermanent. I think (well, I hope) that it's slowly starting to sink in that true understanding doesn't happen on the level of conceptual thinking, though I don't mean to suggest that it's wrong to attempt to conceptualise this understanding, to try to communicate it to others by way of conceptual thinking. It's just important to recognise its limits, I feel.
The problem arises when non-dualism is asserted to be 'truth' or 'truer' than dualism because it is not. Non-dualism is just an alternative to dualism, an alternative mode of consciousness. It is uncommon and not useful in certain contexts where dualism is useful. The non-dualistic mode is useful in rest and/or to detach from 'the world around oneself' because it disappears and the 'purity' can experience itself.
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Old 24-12-2016, 11:53 PM
Starman Starman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ground
The problem arises when non-dualism is asserted to be 'truth' or 'truer' than dualism because it is not. Non-dualism is just an alternative to dualism, an alternative mode of consciousness. It is uncommon and not useful in certain contexts where dualism is useful. The non-dualistic mode is useful in rest and/or to detach from 'the world around oneself' because it disappears and the 'purity' can experience itself.
The non-dualistic mode is often said to be "truer" because oneness is perceived more readily and many, if not most, feel that oneness is our truest state of being, and it is considered pure because it is viewed as a solitary flow or vibration and not a combination or variation of vibrations.

In this world the primordial vibration manifests in various different ways giving the illusion of duality, and as duality is frequently perceived as an "illusion" some see it as "less true." Although illusion does not mean it is not real, or true, it just means that it is illusive and highly changeable. The actual spiritual foundation of our being is much more steady, stable, an solid, than that which is on the surface.
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