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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Science & Spirituality

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  #21  
Old 06-12-2016, 07:32 AM
muffin muffin is offline
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Originally Posted by organic born
I've come think of these kinds of encounters as events that are used to get our attention. I was exposed to one of these in the early part of my exposures and it freaked me out to the bones at the time. I was just going to sleep and this nasty guy was right there waiting for me as I was drifting from my body.. snapped me right back into my body out of fear and it took me a couple of days to head toward bed comfortably again. It hasn't happened since. This was in my early stages of non-physical exposures and it may as well have been one of my own guardians doing this "for me". It did get my attention at the time when I was just beginning to focus in such ways.

But I've yet to see this as a pattern.

Nothing rivets our attention like fear! Carlos Castaneda was subjected to the fear of dying quiet often at the hands of Don Juan. Come to think of it, I believe I was reading his books at the time. :)

Good afternoon all

I think it was more of a precursor of what was to come, something that was drummed into me at the start, "your never alone."

As for patterns and fear, nightmares are a good way to get your attention, in something you may need to do or be aware of.

And as for past lives, I know we have them, but it's not something I've looked at, got quite enough going on in this one to keep me out of trouble
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  #22  
Old 06-12-2016, 01:44 PM
Still_Waters Still_Waters is offline
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Originally Posted by organic born
On the surface one would think this to be a relatively simple test if we're assuming that everything is running in a linear format. But if one strays anywhere near the prospect of quantum physics parallel universes then we're stuck with the complications of picking out which version of a lifetime was being remembered, and then, if those events are being echoed in this one. :)

In addition, studies at the University of Virginia have clearly shown that there are cases of "post mortem survival" (alternate term for "past lives" which is probably more appropriate) where two different people had the same recall. There are also many explanations for that as well.

I too do not think "linearly" in situations such as these, and am aware of the quantum physics implications.
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  #23  
Old 06-12-2016, 11:48 PM
FallingLeaves FallingLeaves is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by organic born
I easily agree with you on this! One of the big problems religion saddled us with is this idea that we should love another as a commandment. That regardless how we really feel about someone or something that we should continually look at them with loving eyes, "what would jesus do?" We were being instructed that what we "really" feel doesn't make a difference, that should we be feeling anger, or hatred toward some one/thing then the problem is ours alone, get over it!

Nonesense of course. It's long become clear to me that ones ability to love another is tethered to their ability to hate them as well. We are not "free" unless we can explore our emotions freely and view them through all the various filters that we are confronted with as a thinking species.

To love, and only love, and expect others to love, and to judge them if they don't love in the way we're conditioned to think love should be expressed, is akin to getting a lobotomy.

To better understand darkness, is to better understand light, is to appreciate the fact that they are intertwined within each other. "Acting" one way or another, in an artificial way based on cultural paradigms, is the best way that I know-of to get stuck in a routine of endless doubt.
Now I adore "doubt" because it's a constant reminder that there's much yet to learn... but I abhor doubt if it's externally imposed.

hm you might appreciate this:

the way science is approached, along with the conclusions it is allowed to come to, are heavily influenced by culture. Different culture, different science, may not even believe the same things are 'self evident' or 'axiomatic' as we call it. Maybe they started with different axioms and have no need for ours?

Descriptions of the natural world, while more entertaining than just about anything we are currently doing, are likewise. Until you live it, you just don't know what is there.

Even something as simple as how I relate to my own body in private is so heavily laced in cultural 'norms' that I don't really know what is there and what isn't.

The problem isn't that the norms exist either, the problem is I want to pick them up and use them to chain myself.
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  #24  
Old 07-12-2016, 09:08 PM
organic born organic born is offline
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Originally Posted by neil
ILL SAY IT AGAIN THOUGH. That the dark ones can absolutely destroy your ability to operate your being in a competent way.

Lots of things do this. Dysfunctional cultural experiences, poor/no quality eating habits, unhelpful gut bacteria, narcissistic behaviour where someone is more focused on their personalized wants and so they are unable to blend functionally with others... and how you "imagine" your life to be is every bit as potent, if not far more so, as to what's actually occurring.

The only place that I've really seen this level of focus on the dark ones is with religious indoctrination. This seems to prime the pump in regards to our associative imagery when things "go wrong".

Much of what's occurring is indeed traceable to biological influences and culturally-induced imaginary themes.

And, did you know that our brains have a method for blocking the dreams that we have at night from entering into our daily experience? Our brains are processing imagery based on whether we're awake or not. An hallucination is a cross-over event, where what's normally a sleeping event is inserted into our waking experience. This is why people start hallucinating when they go a couple of days without sleep. A dream can be very convincing while we're in the sleeping state, and equally as convincing should dream components poke themselves into our waking experience. Something to consider.

I'm okay with some of what you're saying, you are responsive to many viable observations, but this reliance on dark energy as the prime explanation for all-that-ails-us just comes across to me as a nonstarter. It seems to act as a catch-all in order to overly simplify a far more complex set of individualized exposures. It lacks any feeling of personal responsibility for the manor in which we expose our bodies and our thoughts to the environment we now find ourselves in. And it lacks any sense of tactile traction for doing anything tangible in relation to our own growth and expanding awareness.

The spooks made me do it?

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Originally Posted by neil
& I am living proof of that, but i am only living proof to myself & not yourself as you mentioned.

But we will have a yarn & a slight laugh about it one day when we become spiritual beings. & when I say slight laugh, you will know exactly what I mean when you wonder around the earth plane witnessing the truth of my words.

The weaker a human body is, based on poor management, the more vulnerable it is to negative biological influences. The weaker our imagination becomes, based on poor management, the more vulnerable it is to influences both external and internally generated. If dark energy (in this case I'm referring a general lack of knowing) is having the kinds of influences that you're suggesting then it's only because we're allowing ourselves to devolve to the point where such things are possible. The responsibility is still ours in both cases. We need to up our management in response to our bodies intimate needs and clean our imaginative involvement within the world we now find ourselves in.

Making everything about spooks appears to be giving-up on both counts. It suggests that we're helpless against the onslaught of outside influences, so much so that they even determine our ability to perceive with any hope of greater clarity. In my religious days I was stuck with this manor of thinking, this version just feels like an old-school redressing of such things, but in a new agey kinda way.

There is much about life that we're still needing to learn, it just doesn't feel like such investments in this kind of imagery is helpful.
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  #25  
Old 07-12-2016, 09:33 PM
organic born organic born is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FallingLeaves
the way science is approached, along with the conclusions it is allowed to come to, are heavily influenced by culture. Different culture, different science, may not even believe the same things are 'self evident' or 'axiomatic' as we call it. Maybe they started with different axioms and have no need for ours?
Good science changes culture. :) It is true that a culture will take what's emerging from science and adjust it according to it's own predilections, but the better that science gets at uncovering core truths, the harder it is for a culture to ignore. Science rescued us from thinking about reality in purely religious terms by making it quite clear that the picture is much broader.

Physical matter, being what physical matter is, will eventually be interpreted in a similar way by whatever culture that seriously looks into it. Our brains will all be working in a similar way, even though what we're thinking about may vary. A baby will be conceived and will develop in much the same way regardless of what a cultures feelings are about the act that lit the match. :)

Physical matter and physical properties/priories have been around for billions of years. They are not going to change what they do simply because a culture suggests otherwise. Good science steadily uncovers these processes and should ideally leave us humbled by the complexities it uncovers. :)
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  #26  
Old 08-12-2016, 04:01 AM
FallingLeaves FallingLeaves is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by organic born
Good science changes culture. :) It is true that a culture will take what's emerging from science and adjust it according to it's own predilections, but the better that science gets at uncovering core truths, the harder it is for a culture to ignore. Science rescued us from thinking about reality in purely religious terms by making it quite clear that the picture is much broader.

Physical matter, being what physical matter is, will eventually be interpreted in a similar way by whatever culture that seriously looks into it. Our brains will all be working in a similar way, even though what we're thinking about may vary. A baby will be conceived and will develop in much the same way regardless of what a cultures feelings are about the act that lit the match. :)

Physical matter and physical properties/priories have been around for billions of years. They are not going to change what they do simply because a culture suggests otherwise. Good science steadily uncovers these processes and should ideally leave us humbled by the complexities it uncovers. :)

yeah but simply changing what you choose to look or how you choose to look at it can have tremendous effect.

For example I'm aware of an area that scientists were afraid to explore, because the prevailing view was that they would be studying something that was impossible. But the experiment was there, data indicated that the prevailing view might be wrong and it begged exploration anyway.. Noone would touch it though. There was an explicit statement by the ones who had interest, that they felt they would become ostracized, and thus irrelevant, so they would rather do something more mainstream.

And I've often used the example in mathematics of cartesian coordinates vs polar coordinates... if you choose either coordinate system as you primary frame of reference and discount the other, some concepts become easier to grasp and some concepts harder. Choose the other system and the sets of easy/hard concepts change. And there are a LOT of ways to look at things, all equally valid.

Because we as people gravitate toward what seems easy, the parts of reality we see or the way we see them are heavily dependent on which way we choose to look at the thing.

Another problem is that as a people we are faced with either/or choices... so the ability to switch between any two particular viewpoints as you find use for them is often blocked based on the idea that one is somehow inherently better than the other, for whichever purpose. And you just shouldn't use the other.

This is exactly the same problem found in the rest of culture, notably religion. But combined with the level of internal consistency you can achieve the whole thing becomes incredibly compelling anyway.

My other problem with science is that the specific science we have for all practical purposes isn't available to anyone other than an elite. Sure you can read about it, but despite the claims, for all practical purposes the average joe doesn't have a prayer of actually doing any meaningful experiments to confirm or deny what is being said. It takes money and it takes a serious amount of education and it takes contacts that even most scientists won't have.

So in some sense, you are back to taking other people's word for life, only instead of religious people it is now science people. And people being people, it crosses my mind that it is silly to think that science people are somehow inherently more trustworthy than religious people just because they talk about science instead of religion. I really can't convince myself that jsut what you talk about makes you a better person than someone who talks about something else.

Note that I'm NOT saying religious people are trustworthy either, I'm saying that if confronted with the choice between one or the other I would tend to choose neither and just choose my own life.
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  #27  
Old 10-12-2016, 09:19 PM
organic born organic born is offline
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Originally Posted by FallingLeaves
So in some sense, you are back to taking other people's word for life, only instead of religious people it is now science people. And people being people, it crosses my mind that it is silly to think that science people are somehow inherently more trustworthy than religious people just because they talk about science instead of religion. I really can't convince myself that jsut what you talk about makes you a better person than someone who talks about something else.

Note that I'm NOT saying religious people are trustworthy either, I'm saying that if confronted with the choice between one or the other I would tend to choose neither and just choose my own life.
First, understand what you're looking at. In your examples you are referencing what "people are thinking". In my opinion that's largely irrelevant. I tend to use what others are thinking as something-of-a-guide, but not as a conclusion. So when I'm reading what scientist are telling us about what they're learning I add their insights to my list of "potentials". There is no way we can accept their conclusions as fact, many of the ones I read are cautious about doing this also. Their own fields are changing so quickly and in such diverse ways that they know that they'll become irrelevant if they stand still.

Maybe I'm just getting lucky but the folks that I've been reading are unabashedly cutting edge. The tools that are emerging are shaking the groundwork of any kind of previous projections of "stability". I'm currently reading a book entitled "The Memory Illusion: Remembering, Forgetting, and the Science of False Memory", by Julia Shaw (2016). She's writing about the latest of what's known about how we think. I'm early in the book and she's illuminating what they now know about how an infant develops. There was one study that employed 98 infants from the age of two to four weeks until around two years. They were using a "structural MRI" magnetic resonance imaging machine, which can produce 3D images of the physical structures of the brain. They were looking to compare physical developments with the personality traits that accompany age. The observations are too long for a posting, so I'll defer to recommending the book, but it's this level of attention to detail that continually revolutionize the science on the subject.

But it doesn't change at all what is actually occurring, and what has been occurring within our developmental timeline for millions of years. That part has been happening without any conscious input at all from our thoughts-about-things. Pick any culture anywhere and the babies brains would have developed along a similar timeline. The content of each culture may be different, but the physical development itself would be almost identical.

And this is where I feel we get confused. We tend to think that it's all about what we're thinking at any given time, when truly, nature could care less.

So now look at science through these eyes. What science is concluding at any given time is simply a small step along the way toward understanding a "pre-existing" process that generally doesn't need our understanding. If we all died tomorrow then nature would keep cruising, without pause, in it's normal adaptive way. So "believing" in science in absolute terms would be silly. For doing so would be like confusing a movie about something for the real thing. :)
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  #28  
Old 12-12-2016, 10:20 AM
Govind Govind is offline
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Before we born we exists in spirit form.
The life that we lead in our current birth decides the quality of our afterlife and subsequent births.We are born on Earth to settle our give-and-take account or Karma and to do spiritual practice.
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