unconditional love, regardless of others' ignorance

[Silver]

Originally Posted by Humm

I like to.

So ~ enlighten me!

All this talk of Enlightenment,

I feel today like I can see the true nature of this game we're playing. There are patterns of resistance and surrender, giving and taking, action and reaction, cause and effect, rising and falling, hiding from fears and facing fears. It's all so simple, and the message of buddhism and other spiritual teaching is so clear. We're going round in cycles because of our desires, but our desires are creating the frustrating world we're living in.

We have no choice about what is playing out in front of our eyes, so to speak. It rises, sticks around for varying times depending on our reactions to it, then falls away. The only choice we ever have is how to react to what life presents us with moment to moment. The reason we react is because we have habitual mental/emotional patterns within us and we don't give enough space between action and reaction to see that we have the choice. Our reaction then sculpts the path of following events with cause and effect. Our future is dependent on us, on our reaction to what we are presented with.

What we are presented with is not good or bad, it just is. And we're left to decide how to perceive, or not to perceive it.

There are no problems in life, it is only our reaction to things we are presented with that causes problems and drama. So simple.

It's all because of our desires, but we have desires because we seek lasting satisfaction and bliss. But when we have our desires met then the satisfaction and bliss is only temporary and it perpetuates the desires or makes them stronger because we got a little taster.

The only way to get that lasting satisfaction and bliss is to not seek it. To let go of all desires, to stop seeking in the world. To fully accept and surrender to the world.

The trouble is sometimes, we think we are accepting something, but in actual fact we are accepting it on condition, we get what we desire. That again is not acceptance, but resistance in disguise. Acceptance is surrender.

The external world is a mirror of our mind. It presents to us chances to overcome the mind, tests. We will always be tested. The question is, how to react to the tests? The only way we can stop automatically reacting to life and our emotions is to gain awareness. This awareness shines a light on all automated reacting and gives it space. Space to DECIDE, where before their was no decision, just automation.

I could go on and on and on, but I won't.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Charliemcsnarly

All this talk of Enlightenment,

I feel today like I can see the true nature of this game we're playing. There are patterns of resistance and surrender, giving and taking, action and reaction, cause and effect, rising and falling, hiding from fears and facing fears. It's all so simple, and the message of buddhism and other spiritual teaching is so clear. We're going round in cycles because of our desires, but our desires are creating the frustrating world we're living in.

We have no choice about what is playing out in front of our eyes, so to speak. It rises, sticks around for varying times depending on our reactions to it, then falls away. The only choice we ever have is how to react to what life presents us with moment to moment. The reason we react is because we have habitual mental/emotional patterns within us and we don't give enough space between action and reaction to see that we have the choice. Our reaction then sculpts the path of following events with cause and effect. Our future is dependent on us, on our reaction to what we are presented with.

What we are presented with is not good or bad, it just is. And we're left to decide how to perceive, or not to perceive it.

There are no problems in life, it is only our reaction to things we are presented with that causes problems and drama. So simple.

It's all because of our desires, but we have desires because we seek lasting satisfaction and bliss. But when we have our desires met then the satisfaction and bliss is only temporary and it perpetuates the desires or makes them stronger because we got a little taster.

The only way to get that lasting satisfaction and bliss is to not seek it. To let go of all desires, to stop seeking in the world. To fully accept and surrender to the world.

The trouble is sometimes, we think we are accepting something, but in actual fact we are accepting it on condition, we get what we desire. That again is not acceptance, but resistance in disguise. Acceptance is surrender.

The external world is a mirror of our mind. It presents to us chances to overcome the mind, tests. We will always be tested. The question is, how to react to the tests? The only way we can stop automatically reacting to life and our emotions is to gain awareness. This awareness shines a light on all automated reacting and gives it space. Space to DECIDE, where before their was no decision, just automation.

I could go on and on and on, but I won't.

At first it is, then 'you' decide to accept, but before it was accepted it was already there.

"The only way we can stop automatically reacting to life and our emotions is to gain awareness".

I think it might mean 'become conscious' of automated reactions... that's how I interpreted it.

Good points there, I thought it was very interesting.

Originally Posted by Gem

I think it might mean 'become conscious' of automated reactions... that's how I interpreted it.

Yeah totally. Become aware that one has been reacting automatically, become conscious there is space, a choice.

It's one thing however seeing all this, and another thing being able to perform the wisdom one has attained when life throws up tough tests. Perhaps that is the real proof in the pudding of enlightenment.

Emotions and desires can have a considerable amount of pull on us.

[Xan]

Originally Posted by silent whisper

How can what others throw around block ones own innate sense of curiosity? Curiosity is only blocked by ones own blocks...I would think.

That's what I meant... blocking one's own open curiosity by latching onto ideas and reactions.


Xan

Originally Posted by Charliemcsnarly

All this talk of Enlightenment,

I feel today like I can see the true nature of this game we're playing. There are patterns of resistance and surrender, giving and taking, action and reaction, cause and effect, rising and falling, hiding from fears and facing fears. It's all so simple, and the message of buddhism and other spiritual teaching is so clear. We're going round in cycles because of our desires, but our desires are creating the frustrating world we're living in.

...

The only way to get that lasting satisfaction and bliss is to not seek it. To let go of all desires, to stop seeking in the world. To fully accept and surrender to the world.

The trouble is sometimes, we think we are accepting something, but in actual fact we are accepting it on condition, we get what we desire. That again is not acceptance, but resistance in disguise. Acceptance is surrender.

I think that's about right Charlie. The essence of nature of reality is "value added" attachments to objects and people. I think Buddha was correct in that assessment of the nature of reality - and how desire deludes us in a fashion to miss the true nature of things. We take a group of atoms, if you will, and begin to add concepts to it "Mine" "That was my father's" "I loved that for so long" "My friend has one just like it" etc. And by being mindful, or aware, we are able to check desire in a way so that we don't get caught up in it and let it rule our lives. The Zen idea of "Destroy the Self" comes to mind - meaning let go of all the concepts and attachments we have in order to have a happier, stress free existence.

But in my own search, I found a conundrum there. I'd had a few profound experiences, let's say off the planet, or outside of time, and I was aware of my consciousness still existing, and not dissolving. Which, in terms of Buddhist philosophy doesn't really exist. It exists inherently, or as a wisp of smoke between lives, but doesn't exist as a fully conscious soul between lives. I spent about ten years studying Tibetan Buddhist philosophy to get my mind around that, when I came upon the work of Michael Newton - a psychologist who over 30 years, had thousands of people say the same things about the Afterlife under deep hypnosis. And what people were saying is that we are fully conscious between lives, there is an eternal spirit per se, even though it is ever evolving and learning and changing - just the way the self is - but on a different energetic level.

<snip> part of my journey was a dream where someone spoke to me in Latin saying "Vanum Populatum." I wrote it down and days later looked it up - in Latin it means annihilate vanity. I don't speak Latin - and was curious why this would appear in a dream, as it's not in the lexicon of the planet per se. I mean, I could look up the words, but it wasn't a common phrase. And I had the profound sense that it was an older version of me talking to me - which puzzled me further - why would I speak to myself in a language I don't understand? And then it occurred to me; Destroy the Ego was close to the concept - but more along the lines of "Destroy vanity - the things of the ego that drive us through life; desire for money, fame, fortune, etc." I realized it was related to my Buddhist studies, but said from a different point of view. (and I live in LA - where to begin?)

<snip> started filming what people were saying under hypnosis - and they were all saying the same things, whether or not a Newton trained therapist was involved - and at some point I was offered a session. And in my session, in order to prove that the therapist wasn't leading me, one of my questions was "What's the meaning of vanum populatum?" I knew beyond a shadow of doubt that no one else on the planet knew what that phrase meant, outside of some Latin scholar.

And in my session, I saw myself standing in front of my council of elders, wise beings who guide us through all our lifetimes (I won't go into the research on this, but Newton does - we all have one, and I was surprised to see I had one as well) - and when I asked "What's the meaning of vanum populatum?" they all laughed. And the lead council member said "Why don't you ask Rich; he knows the answer to that?" And an image of myself lying on the couch during this session appeared in my mind.

Two things came from that - one is he could have said "You already know the answer to that" - but he was referring to my current self, and not the eternal one who he was responding to. And the second was that I realized my eternal self (relatively, inherently) had given the concept as a puzzle in Latin knowing that I would look it up, and by doing so would contemplate on the meaning of it, rather than dismissing it as a dream.

So I agree with you - I think Buddhist philosophy is as close as we have on the planet to describe what the human experience is. But I differ when it comes to the bardo, and the Book of the Dead - (which was experienced by one monk, who passed it orally to future generations who eventually wrote it down - but the experience isn't shared for all people when it comes to the bardo - there are thousands of people who have a description of the process that matches up, via Newton's research) - we aren't wisps of smoke between lives that are dictated by karma and the sex act when it comes to our next lifetime.

Rather we are more like the lamas who meditate for hours a day on our next incarnation - and ultimately plan what that's going to be with our loved ones and spirit guides. So the energy that we have to desire to understand the nature of reality is a good desire I think - one that drives us in our spiritual quest, and one that enriches our lives. Wouldn't want to detach from that.

One factoid i learned in my research - according to Richard Davidson's studies at the U of Wis/Madison where he studied the brains of monks under meditation he discovered that even one session of meditation can cure depression as it changes the amygdala, the source of depression in the brain. But I asked him what meditation he was using, and he told me "tonglen." Tonglen means "give and take" and is a healing meditation people use to cure others of illnesses. You literally picture your ill loved one across from you, and as you breathe in the illness, you dissolve it in the white healing light of the universe, and then breathe into that individual the cure for their illness. What makes that so fascinating is a person can cure their depression by meditating on curing someone else.

So it's not just that an enlightened meditating monk is detaching to other individuals, rather they're tapping into the source that can help cure other people - (either through the Boddhisattva vow, or by asking to help all others through the particular meditation) and by doing so cure themselves (and why Time magazine's article on Davidson cited his study as something like "the happiest man in the world.") It's not enough to detach - it's important to have insight into what that means - detachment from vanity, for example - but it's healthy and compassionate to heal through the projection of the heart and mind into connecting to other individuals. Perhaps that's what you meant by surrendering to the world. But it's a world where we can help and heal (ourselves and others) through the power of our mind (according to the research). At least that's my two cents.

Edited by SF Staff

Rich Martini - That was incredibly insightful, thank you! The hypnosis experience sounds fascinating.

From the many near death experiences I have heard and read about, the bardo doesn't seem to perfectly explain it all, I take it as more of something to deeply ponder rather than believe as the way it is. Also from stories of people coming to the place of rebirth whilst astral projecting etc.

I agree that Buddhist philosophy is the closest to showing us the natural patterns of existence, and in my opinion it is the most trustworthy source for attaining insight and wisdom, and the only psychotherapy tool one would ever need. That's not to say we can't take our own path. I personally believe, from my own experience, that psychoactive and psychedelic substances can open our consciousness and awareness to a level that Buddhism may never have taken us. I have gotten this far without Buddhism, and I have experimented with psychedelics. Yet Buddhism rules out all substances, it makes no divide between mind closers and mind openers.

That is very interesting about the tonglen meditation. I may try that, I have a mother who is chronically ill. Thank you for introducing it to me.

The biggest message of Buddhism is that of compassion. And so the detached monk, on becoming enlightened, then seeks to free all sentient beings from suffering, as far as I'm aware. We may all be having an experience, and suffering may not really exist beyond the mind, but the most common theme of all spiritual growth seems to be developing compassion for all who are suffering.

I find it interesting the idea that true spirituality must be and always is divorced from the realities of economy and cash.

The fact is that survival in this world is not a 'sometimes' need - as long as one is here, the need to eat and have a safe place to sleep and take care of one's body persists. True, there are ascetic minimums one can survive with, and true also that money collection is easily abused for any reason, but still I don't automatically condemn someone simply because they make a decent living at what they do, or are able to further their compassionate causes under a successful business model.

Just sayin'.

Ha, oh come on I was only messing around! I appreciate this kind of work as much as anyone.

Thanks so much Rich for all the free previews!

[angeliclove689]

maybe love can stay on a higher ground