Femininity Know Thyself

Originally Posted by Neville

Well it just shows you how really ignorant I am.

I thought everyone acknowledged both the divine feminine and divine masculine, both within and without the self. I mean. just what is the symbology behind the Pestle and Mortar ??? Is it not self evident to any Pagan?

Can't tell if you're being ironic... : )

Well to me personally, the phallus as a symbol simply represents the direction of energy + focus. So even women have the phallus, essentially. lol.
So in Wicca, the horned god does all your thrusting for you while moon goddess is a sort of recepticle. The semen from the testes is well represented as half of the egg's potential. Seeds in the fertile soil. Energy to make life spring up, to animate the unknown. I'm fine with this personally. I believe it can work just as well as a singular goddess concept, and for a lot of people it is the most sensible, easy-to-understand idea. Male + female right? Equal roles.

Wicca works for some, but I am uncomfortable with my perceived biases of its symbols. It's based on strict role play. That creates a certain...pattern.

Also for me personally, I prefer to incorporate the irrational mind into my spiritual concepts. Life is irrational, not just logical and simple to understand. I relate Goddess to 'the god', so she has to be singular or it wouldn't work. But what is goddess? just pregnant emptiness... so she can be anything and take any form. So she is also male, but not. female, but not. You need to make room for paradoxical logic to grasp the idea of this. Your mind has to be paradoxical.

By the way, I'm not talking about Dianic Wicca here. I don't condone exclusion at all, or any political feminist agenda.
I can only talk for my own ideas of these words. My ideas are deeply tantric. It's tantra philosophy... It's Ishtar/Inanna... It's a very Eastern idea of Goddess.
;-)

The spiritual/divine analogy Wicca uses is human reproduction. They are using earth concepts to describe wider cosmic ideas.

My spiritual/divine analogy, (Inspired by Tantra), is based on cosmic reproduction. I am using the cosmos to describe itself in human terms. Not the other way round.

So with Tantra, for me, it is a little more elegant, philosophically. It has more clarity to me because one is working from a higher idea down to a lower.

That said, Tantra is a huge subject... it's not all the same thing. Just like the term 'Pagan'. Take it with a pinch of salt.

Here are some links to the Indian Goddess conception. And one from probably Eastern Europe or the 'Near East':

http://www.shivashakti.com/tripura.htm

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_T...,_Perfect_Mind

Irony was not my intent.

Of course the divine Feminine is integral, but not to be over emphasized to the detriment of the divine masculine. Simply because of the propensity of an apparent imbalance being promoted.

The Pole Dancers Pole as it were. I am being careful here for self evidential reasons..(discretion being appesite on an all age forum). You are quiet sufficiently able to discuss articulately the in's and the out's anyway. as already evidenced.

Anyhoo. What's our point?

I acknowledge the existence of both x and y chromosome..Is their an importance to highlighting the xx chromosome that you think we might be missing out on? It's acadamic anyway..because deny it or no, it's there anyway...I assume it's how comes blokes cry when their partners birth a child or when grandma finally crosses over after a long illness and like flowers etc.

I'm not getting the point of this thread at all, primarily, I think because I already knew that I was both x and y chromosome already which leads(because I do equate or at least have worked on reconciling science with spirituality) me to believe that acknowledging the divine feminine or masculine is and automatically a deep down response taken care of already by biology,

Pagans and Wiccans, not withstanding. bringing me back to the sadly lamentable analogy of the pole dancers pole.. The pole being not seperate but integral to the dance.

She who plays, what about the Dakinis? http://www.exoticindiaart.com/dakini.htm

Sky Dancers Extraodinaire!

The tantric shaft, known in Tibetan as the khatvanga, which she very conveniently tucks under one of her arms, is a symbol of masculinity.









"Thus the message is brought across that nature is complete when male and female essences co-exist, each is incomplete without the other. None of the two is an island. An existence striving to live in resonance with the harmonies of nature must accept this fact, and bring about the necessary transformations required, if they do not already exist, to achieve this wholeness."

[Honza]

It can be argued that the sexes are not equal. It used to be considered that the masculine is superior to the feminine. But if one leaves superiority out of the equation then one can discuss more objectively. Many old religions considered the divine feminine to be the ORIGINAL sex. One which gave birth to masculininity. One from which masculinity emerged.

If Femininity is considered the SOURCE from which all other creation came then the sexes are not equal. Femininity is then primary and masculinity is secondary. I'm wondering if this is possibly true?

Is femininity God?

Originally Posted by she who plays

Hi Honza,

I am understanding this as well. I feel like I have a wholly female consciousness that is experiencing itself through a male body (this time around).
So it was awkward for a while, until I realized what was going on. Once I accepted my femininity I felt complete. It's kind of like all this trapped energy is released and one can move freely and uninhibited. It's very light and energetic.

The feminine is more associated with subconscious mind and feely-touchy, intuitive etc. ;-) You know the lingo. Even lots of women though do not have a good connection to their wild, subconscious nature. I would say the masculine is more about the habitual application of reasoned thought, planning and judgement. It's more entrenched in STRUCTURE and the systematic relationships; I would say more mind-centered.

Now the trick is to harness both the feminine and the masculine modes, regardless of body type or gender.

Personally, my gender is feminine but I utilize the masculine consciousness (And this body) to express my own femininity. So I remain female while simultaneously expressing the masculine as the other side of the feminine.

In doing this, one transforms and reverses the traditional masculine/feminine archetypes. What is masculine becomes feminine; what is feminine becomes masculine. Thus one can have their cake and eat it. You become trans-gender and can benefit from that immensely.

Also important to note... we need the role reversal element because feminine/masculine is not fixed or hard set. It's definitions change and can be easily flipped. Thus it's important to be fluid in how we use such terms; and it's open to personal interpretation.

I love what is beautiful and elegant and pretty. If someone says to me that that's not a masculine trait, then by God I am feminine and do not care! Of course the ultimate truth is that getting tingly sensations by smelling a rose is neither feminine nor masculine. It's Godly. We just need to play the game of duality. :-)

Wow, what a great post SWP!

I think your ideas need their own topic in the Spirituality & Sexuality forum.

Seriously.

Originally Posted by Neville

Irony was not my intent.

Of course the divine Feminine is integral, but not to be over emphasized to the detriment of the divine masculine. Simply because of the propensity of an apparent imbalance being promoted.

The Pole Dancers Pole as it were. I am being careful here for self evidential reasons..(discretion being appesite on an all age forum). You are quiet sufficiently able to discuss articulately the in's and the out's anyway. as already evidenced.

Anyhoo. What's our point?

I acknowledge the existence of both x and y chromosome..Is their an importance to highlighting the xx chromosome that you think we might be missing out on? It's acadamic anyway..because deny it or no, it's there anyway...I assume it's how comes blokes cry when their partners birth a child or when grandma finally crosses over after a long illness and like flowers etc.

I'm not getting the point of this thread at all, primarily, I think because I already knew that I was both x and y chromosome already which leads(because I do equate or at least have worked on reconciling science with spirituality) me to believe that acknowledging the divine feminine or masculine is and automatically a deep down response taken care of already by biology,

Pagans and Wiccans, not withstanding. bringing me back to the sadly lamentable analogy of the pole dancers pole.. The pole being not seperate but integral to the dance.

Lol, well I didn't start this thread. As I see it, it was just a simple, if crude, public expression of someone's desire to talk about how they are exploring their femininity. I just used the thread to discuss femininity in general, as relating to spirituality.

You have a good point. Feminine and Masculine are two sides of the same coin. As are Man-Woman, and Male-Female. There should always be a hyphen there really. Just like body-mind, love-hate, and so on.
I don't think Woman should be privalged, but it is due to Her close symbolic alignment with the cosmic zero point that the perception of privelage arises. One must be careful here, and realize that her true nature is genderless. But due to the non-difference of things... it really does not matter if you say he or she (or 'it') to describe God. Speaking only for myself, she is a personal, subjective preference. And whatever the case, it is impossible to erase subjectivity and your own subjective perspective that forms your self. I cannot speak for anyone else or any pagan groups.

And the pole dancer is such a beautiful analogy. It's such a succinct and elegant-trashy summation of exactly what we're discussing. :-)

Originally Posted by Mayflow

The tantric shaft, known in Tibetan as the khatvanga, which she very conveniently tucks under one of her arms, is a symbol of masculinity.









"Thus the message is brought across that nature is complete when male and female essences co-exist, each is incomplete without the other. None of the two is an island. An existence striving to live in resonance with the harmonies of nature must accept this fact, and bring about the necessary transformations required, if they do not already exist, to achieve this wholeness."

Oh I love this! When I do drawings of her, she always grasps at a long, hard spear.

Heh, but it represents so much more than phallus... there are many dimensions; War, Ego, Self, Force, Dissolution, Protest, The Warrior, Limitation, Restriction, Free Will, etc. etc. To reduce it simply to a phallus is very basic. But it also fits the shape of a willy. :-)