The End of Suffering.

[7luminaries]

cheers & nite nite...

[Gem]

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

I agree, we make our own prisons. Even if the scrap piles used to construct them may have been accumulated at the hand of others. Nothing else can hold us emotionally and spiritually except our own hand.

I also agree we are driven to overcome them. Why are some more successful? Why are so many relatively unsuccessful (let's not use the "f" word)? That relates both to our self-made prisons and to our capacity for healing at this moment.

There is a saying (Einstein) that a problem cannot be overcome at the same level of awareness that created it. That is exactly what I mean when I said the the love and acceptance required to heal own inner wounds are often beyond the individual's current capacity or level. And yet they must heal in order to reach this level.

Love and support allows for quantum leaps because we step beyond or outside the reach of boundaries. This is the place of healing and growth. And we can help to provide that space for one another, so that we can be at next level already when we get there. So that we can support, love and heal ourselves and each other.

Peace & blessings,
7L

I don't believe in levels, and I have no way of asserting this level on one and some other level on another, I know these impositions are only used to place the self somewhere.

This only places one above the next, a kind of spirituall heirachy I have always been subject to, but luckily for me have never bought into.

I find nothing constructive is looking up a level above and looking down a level below, and have no notions at all of myself being at some level.

[sound]

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

LOL...one man/woman's beliefs are another's prison, eh?

So they believe lol

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

Sound if your beliefs cause you suffering, what do you do?

Well often, that is revealed, through less than effective outcomes, which have a habit of repeating themselves over and over until i make the connection lol ... ultimately with probably as much forethought as has gone into this post, i let them go and see what surfaces. It has taken me a long time to shift into that 'space' but it was crucial to my ongoing 'experience that i did, if you can read between the lines there my friend x

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

What if your belief is one of the innate worth of human life, say, and you see it compromised...perhaps even on a person level?

Innate feelings of human worth, for me, are not simple beliefs ... they are realizations which dont shift with my conscious 'egoistic' perspective lol that statement reminds me of that cartoon Hugo Ago Go lol he was some super detective i think lol ...

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

If you are forced to defend yourself...or you see a friend or neighbor tortured or killed, etc? Do you give up on your beliefs? Do you endure your suffering? If you choose the latter...then you eventually find your way back to seeking healing...

If i dont endure the suffering i attach to those scenarios i don't maintain the presence of mind to detail my experience ... suffering is ended by one means or another or another or another ... whether it be through the examination of beliefs or the cessation of ones life giving breath ... bottom line in one sense ...

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

That's the part I was addressing...because it's here I find the issue particularly interesting and relevant...I agree many beliefs are fundamental to being sentient and spiritually aware...so we cannot just bin them and "numb out" to deal with suffering.

Most definitely not 7L ... well, truth be known, we can believe we are just 'binning them' and 'numbing out', however, feelings arise 'to be expressed' and within that generous framework, the scope is infinite ...

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

I think Buddha's approach is partial, in that awareness is just the first step toward our future and detachment is perhaps the grandest form of denial for many, so perhaps it's best for us not to get too comfortable pausing along the roadside to catch our breath either :)

I feel that part of our dilemma originates through trying to second guess that which is yet to be revealed lol xx

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by Gem

I don't believe in levels, and I have no way of asserting this level on one and some other level on another, I know these impositions are only used to place the self somewhere.

This only places one above the next, a kind of spirituall heirachy I have always been subject to, but luckily for me have never bought into.

I find nothing constructive is looking up a level above and looking down a level below, and have no notions at all of myself being at some level.

Gem, level is just a word, perhaps not the best. I also have no notion of being at a particular level. I suppose capacity is a better word for what I was trying to say.

The main point was the Einstein conundrum and how we may often seek to expand our capacity for healing. The issue I wanted to discuss was how we "expand" beyond our capacity to heal ourselves...in order to have the capacity we need to heal ourselves.

Peace & blessings,
7L

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by sound

So they believe lol


Well often, that is revealed, through less than effective outcomes, which have a habit of repeating themselves over and over until i make the connection lol ... ultimately with probably as much forethought as has gone into this post, i let them go and see what surfaces. It has taken me a long time to shift into that 'space' but it was crucial to my ongoing 'experience that i did, if you can read between the lines there my friend x

I do and I agree...well said...on the one hand, what is there to add, LOL?
At the same time, acceptance is a 2-way street. It's not all on you, or on me, etc.
I have also come to see that other's rights to limit your connection are no more important than your right to be accepted fully on all "levels" (pardon to Gem)...

Ergo...if they will not do so, you or I or whomever are free to set our own limits. Limits are not just for the initial "limiter". LOL. The "limitee" is also a "limiter".

I.e, by stepping away, you limit the limitations, or restrictions, put upon you.
I limit your ability to limit your acceptance of me.
Or, I limit your ability to interact with me in such a limited way.
That's not acceptable to me, and I won't be or can't be confined by your limits.

Like with my ex, who had depression and was unable to interact. When he wouldn't get help, after several years, I had to limit our interaction...i.e. get a divorce...and it was necessary for my own emotional health and wellbeing. If others play the limits game at the most fundamental levels, then I find removal of self is the normally best option.

Originally Posted by sound

Innate feelings of human worth, for me, are not simple beliefs ... they are realizations which dont shift with my conscious 'egoistic' perspective lol that statement reminds me of that cartoon Hugo Ago Go lol he was some super detective i think lol ...

I agree. I think much of what we call emotion is the orientation of the soul. To separate compassion or joy or many other fundamental aspects of the soul amounts to a sort of murder or death or trauma. It is the truth of who I am that doesn't change rapidly but rather is revealed or unveiled or polished over time. These are not the same as passing sensations that many call emotion. Again, we don't have enough words to describe the differences but I think we all understand.

Originally Posted by sound

If i dont endure the suffering i attach to those scenarios i don't maintain the presence of mind to detail my experience ... suffering is ended by one means or another or another or another ... whether it be through the examination of beliefs or the cessation of ones life giving breath ... bottom line in one sense ...

True. But do you seek healing? How do you cope? I am pretty much assuming that people seek healing or at least a way to cope, which often leads to understanding the need to heal. This is where we can be of great assistance to one another. During times of war or disease or "acts of God"...or living in areas of deprivation etc...suffering and loss are widespread.

Often the only things we can offer one another is the only thing we truly need -- the love and support, the compassion and understanding of one soul to another.

Originally Posted by sound

Most definitely not 7L ... well, truth be known, we can believe we are just 'binning them' and 'numbing out', however, feelings arise 'to be expressed' and within that generous framework, the scope is infinite ...


I feel that part of our dilemma originates through trying to second guess that which is yet to be revealed lol xx

;) I try not to second guess...I just try to stay with whatever, LOL...
but I suppose I can work on that one. I have a habit of calling it like I see it, and if I have only partial info, well, c'est la vie

It reminds me of that "classic line" in Mr. Magorium's Wonder Emporium. Which I highly recommend, btw.

Magorium to Mutant "Mutant, I have something very important to tell you!"
To Molly after his call to Mutant cuts out: "Oh well...he'll figure it out".




Peace, blessings, & much love
7L

[7luminaries]

A friend just sent this...it seemed somehow relevant to what Sound & I were just discussing...& if not, hope you enjoy anyway


A parable is told of a farmer who owned an old mule. The
mule fell into the farmer's well. The farmer heard the mule
'braying' -- or whatever mules do when they fall into wells.
After carefully assessing the situation, the farmer felt
sorry for the mule, but decided that neither the mule nor
the well was worth saving. Instead, he called his neighbors
together and told them what had happened and asked them to
help haul dirt to bury the old mule in the well and put him
out of his misery.

Initially, the old mule was hysterical! But as the farmer
and his neighbors continued shoveling and the dirt hit his
back, a thought struck him. It suddenly dawned on him that
every time a shovel load of dirt landed on his back: he
should shake it off and step up! This is what the old mule
did, blow after blow. "Shake it off and step up... shake
it off and step up... shake it off and step up!" he repeated
to encourage himself.

No matter how painful the blows, or distressing the situation
seemed, the old mule fought 'panic' and just kept right on shaking
it off and stepping up! You guessed it! It wasn't long before
the old mule, battered and exhausted, stepped triumphantly
over the wall of that well!

What seemed like it would bury him, actually end up
blessing him. All because of the manner in which he handled
his adversity.
--------------------------------------

May we all be old mules in the face of adversity

7L

Im trying to change so I can be a light in the world too! i loveee you allllll xoxo

[Gem]

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

Gem, level is just a word, perhaps not the best. I also have no notion of being at a particular level. I suppose capacity is a better word for what I was trying to say.

The main point was the Einstein conundrum and how we may often seek to expand our capacity for healing. The issue I wanted to discuss was how we "expand" beyond our capacity to heal ourselves...in order to have the capacity we need to heal ourselves.

Peace & blessings,
7L

I have no clue, and looking back can't even see that I've healed anything, certainly been aware of a growing 'conundrum' though.

I believe the Buddha and his followers in the many different traditions solved this problem.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPMnMmnZ2Zc

This link helped a suffering and scared drug addict feel "more relaxed than" he'd "ever been." He ended up saying that he actually wanted the suffering of the withdrawals, that he wanted to go through it to get off of them. Any bit of media that can do that can most likely make most regular people feel deeply penetrated and reminded of their awakened state.

for me, this little bit of media is here like a connection to the other world we refuse to wake up to. As if within a dream, there is one character who always reminds you that you are dreaming.

[Sapphirez]

that's a cool story about the mule ♥