Science and Spirituality successfully meet: the work of physicist Tom Campbell

thanks for the link. i love this kind of thought and will be checking it out.

Yeah ...

Christianity at the very least was written much like any work of fiction today: at a well documented meeting where several figures came together to discuss the material and myths they wanted to incorporate into the story they would be using to control masses. Not to say that controlling masses is evil!! By all means if all man wants to do is rape and pillage, please control them. But behavior is changing, basic behavior is becoming healthier and more harmonious, soon the time to abolish religion as a source of moral guidelines for man at large will be upon us. You will most likely not survive to see this particular incarnation of humanity. Most of us will not look upon it with the eyes we use now anyway. So yeah, I dunno if improperly quoting a book recorded as being translated by at least seven different languages at varying times around the last sixteen hundred years should be the weapon of choice in this particular exchange.

So, opinion, all religion is simply a means to explain that science which is beyond the comprehension of the majority. Simple as that I think. "Why do we not see the sun at night?" is a question that has been explained so many times by so many belief systems in so many unique ways. Priests from thousands of years ago kept mathematical angles and many sided shapes from general knowledge because of the fear of what it might do. People who worshiped a dodecahedron for crying out loud. The more advanced our knowledge became the harder it was to control the masses, without fear of unknown mankind expands and changes. And change is very difficult for man to ride with too many times in a single generation. Scientists have been murdered for knowing the earth was round, and for generations to come that persecution will undoubtedly continue.

It almost has to in a way. If man figures out the connections between his "spiritual moments" and the physical world it will become possible to control the mind of every entity with the shame enough to exist. Which at the moment would be unkind for all entities.

That said I find a great comfort in the thoughts of additional spacial dimensions and the new physics that might rest there, connected by the same root of energy that powers all the known reality we share. I like the quantum foam, I like the low-energy tests they were doing that seemed to bring them a greater control over the reactions at a quantum level. I suggested to someone that the human body is capable of directing some of the energy that makes up the physical body to generate changes in the environment. Since the changes are instantaneous for us they are hard to quantify, that and because we are currently incapable of separating causality on this level to observe it apart from the macrocosm as is one of the big proofs from the core science community :)

I sometimes forget that science, though a force for knowledge, is still made up and funded by people. Nothing can as yet be comprised without their involvement, and therefore, their prejudice. All together I'm excited about reading a little of Tom Campbell's work, though I have scruntin-eyez for repetition and methods of brainwashing and subconscious integration so if I find any I will be sure to report it as such, not to devalue the message but there are methods and ways to say things to make anyone believe it.

How exciting!

[Morpheus]

How about this...
"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistant one."?

Or...

"Time and space are modes in which we think,and not conditions in which we live."
-Einstein.
Some 70+ years ago.

That's simply referring to the phenomenon where in the observer cannot overcome the limitations of their physical being. Even devices still feed information back through the same senses. So there is that :)

There is the universe and there is you. Without you there is a basic universe but not the one we see through human eyes. If you take that approach the whole thing solves easily. It just isn't easy to take that approach.

Originally Posted by joelr

I think the evidence is sound that any theories related to a TOE will be a mathematical theory.

Agreed that of course there is a ton of evidence that this is the case based on voluminous scientific work over the last few hundred years, but be careful that such a conclusion doesn't just become a belief based on that information (making the mistake of thinking there's nothing greater). Indeed, there is information "out there" (not just in this reality frame) that would very probably impact your perception about this topic. Unfortunately, having a belief in ANY aspect of "what must be" (for instance believing that a TOE must be mathematical like Newton's laws) can limit your willingness to search where you need to find a more accurate paradigm.

Originally Posted by joelr

A TOE has to account for all other theories in physics, only with math can that be done. Literally, it's the only possible way.

A TOE indeed has to account for ALL other results in physics, and it must include and explain ALL of the math, but it is not true that "only with math" can that be done. That sounds nuts if you have seen that math can explain so much here, but math is not the ultimate explainer of all phenomena in all existence. The reason is, the rule-set of our reality here (which contains all math, all physical interactions, all experimentation ever done that we can look up on Google) is a sub-set of another reality which has laid down that rule-set itself. Math allows us to speak extremely effectively about aspects of our rule-set in this reality and predict vast amounts of physical interaction, but it is a false assumption to believe that math itself can conclude the "why" of all things (including the origin of the math or those specific equations themselves ;) ). For instance, if acceleration due to gravity is at a rate of 9.8 meters / second squared, why is that? "It's just the way it is and it always works" is not an answer- a TOE must derive why that equation is used.

Note that a World of Warcraft Elf character may discover and utilize the math of his world to great success, but he is incapable (while constrained as an Elf) to speak to the dimension that generates his including the game server, the reason for the server, or the weather outside the PC player's house and the danger that lightning could fry the components. :) (just a fun example) Metaphorically, you and I are in the World of Warcraft right now- and because you've only ever seen pixel rain fall down from 90 degrees above at a named rate (metaphor), you are convinced that the source of all of the World of Warcraft must be another World of Warcraft physics equation. That's a reasonable mistake- after all, how could the Elf know anything about Blizzard Entertainment and the temperature of its server room? :)

Originally Posted by redeyessoul

Yeah ...
All together I'm excited about reading a little of Tom Campbell's work, though I have scruntin-eyez for repetition and methods of brainwashing and subconscious integration so if I find any I will be sure to report it as such, not to devalue the message but there are methods and ways to say things to make anyone believe it.
How exciting!

Absolutely, scrutinize away. :) Campbell is very clear that no one should take anything he says on belief, but instead use his model as just that- a model- in order to appraise reality with open-minded skepticism. In his book he speaks to both the necessity of scrutiny, as well as the sub-optimal nature of belief systems (and brainwashing), at great length.

[someguy92]

Science is always controlled by two things, economy and politics,anyone who works in engineering field or production field will tell you this. Great example, engine that runs on hydrogen has been invented loooong ago maybe even in the begining of 20 century, Hitler even experimented with hydrogen engine. Hydrogen engine would be such ingenious device, not only hydrogen is more flamable and explosive than fuel, wich means its more effective, but when hydrogen burns it produces water and you know what water is....its H20 it means that hydrogen is there and hydrogen can be created from water with electrolysis, perpetum mobile would not be possible thanks to thermodynamic laws, but it would be so fuel efficient that it could be near that....BUT it wont happen unless oil barons run out of oil, so we are stuck in oil thanks to politics. Spirituality is and WAS approved by science. Existence of souls was acknowledged, souls are electromagnetic waves, they can be caught on camera, walking trough walls is possible concept, some chinese scientists even successfully acomplished it, emotions change the way water condenses, prayers are powerfull as our mind can change matter, as mind sends electromagnetic waves wich CAN interfere with matter or even existence of God, if you know elementary physics, you know that energy exists, is intelligent, is everywhere and constant, and you know what is energy? Energy is God, this even approves the theory of God that God is everywhere and everything as everything is energy....I could go on forever, but point is stated, science is controlled by politics and economy.

[Fairyana]

I'm a big fan of Tom Campbell. I watched his lectures and started reading his book but didn't finish it cause I got side tracked by other books that took my attention. lol. I gotta get back to it though.

I still have some problem visualizing what he means... For instance, I don't know where to add the Big Bang in his model.

Fairyana, thanks for your comment. :) Tom discusses the Big Bang in his book. I won't go into nearly the detail he does, but in short, in his view the Big Bang is the "beginning" of the simulation, after all pre-sets (the mathematical rule-set) have been "loaded." Since this universe is "virtual" (in that it is derived from a "higher" generating non-physical material reality or NPMR), it doesn't exist as a fundamental thing, but instead exists as an experience rendered to all conscious participants (kindof like the Matrix :) ).