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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Spiritual Development

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  #21  
Old 04-03-2011, 12:48 AM
Mountain-Goat
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Graelwyn
Fantastic post, I read it all, and it is very much the place I am aiming to reach, for like you I allowed myself to be deeply wounded and affected by the words of others, due to incredible low self esteem, bought about by childhood wounds.
You are aware you have allowed it so you're well into your journey Graelwyn, to which I surmise you may already know but I mention it because
on my journey there were many times I had no idea if I was making any progress, which is related to how dark each valley was that I was traversing at the time.
Acknowledgement/acceptance, envisioning/pondering and consciously persuing understanding is half the battle won.
I see from your words you do this, so what you seek and more is assured if you continue your journey.

The positives when one has low self esteem, according to what I've seen on my journey are,
no or miniscule arrogance, the only way is up; ie sometimes the only way to go up is to push oneself up from the very bottom,
courage and strong will to have lived within the crushing depths of low self esteem,
an already high level of self awareness, honest self confrontation and evaluation and more...
Quote:
Very useful and helpful post, I applaud you.
~slightly bows in acknowledgement~
If one person is aided on thier journey by what I have seen on mine, it increases the high value I already have of the hell I walked through, and it's always a joy to walk with fellow travellers.
Quote:
I hope I also reach the level you are at, if I am not already there.
I think I have a little way to go still since I have only just begun to work on it consciously, via the same routes actually.
"All strong souls first go to hell before they do the healing of the world they came here for. If we are lucky, we return to help those still trapped below." - Clarissa Pinkola Estes

"The basic principle of spiritual life is that our problems become the very place to discover wisdom and love." - Jack Kornfield

"The limiting beliefs and self-doubts that plague most of us are formidable opponents. One of the most effective ways of dealing with these harsh internal messages is to learn to question every single should and limiting belief with the gentle innocence of children." - Maggie Craddock

"The limits you create will be real to you until you learn to step beyond them. Then they will cease to be real. Then, you will look back at the reality you used to inhabit and feel claustrophobic, wondering how you were able to stand its narrow confines." - Paul Ferrini

"If you want to follow me to freedom, be prepared to swim upstream, against the river of conditioning.
Be prepared to grapple continuously with the fierce flow of negative mental currents. In time our strokes will become effortless and our sense of purpose irresistible." - Buddha

"Mindfulness refers to keeping one's consciousness alive to the present reality. It is the miracle by which we master and restore ourselves." - Thich Nhat Hanh
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  #22  
Old 04-03-2011, 12:51 AM
Mountain-Goat
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf63
Great post, Thanks it all makes sense to me.
Tnx. I'm a huge fan of understanding. With it one is able to progress, change, heal, do all manner of things.
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  #23  
Old 04-03-2011, 12:54 AM
Mountain-Goat
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by in progress
Nice stuff!
~smiles and nods~
And by the way, this has been on my mind, for like, ever. And haar at me if I have already mentioned it.
I like your name. in progress - the journey of life is continuous.
A journey of wonder. Of course, going through the dark valleys, initially, are not fun or wonderous.

But when one has made a breakthrough, healed an issue, solved a problem, then one sees how amazingly awesome and beautiful existance is, those mountain top moments.
And then, from the view on top, one sees how profound and beautiful and infinite life is and one sees how much more progress one has yet to accomplish and experience.
And if the potential, the possibilities one sees is anything or more than what one has just experienced,
then the jaw drops and the heart does that indescribable thing that it does so well in situations like these.
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  #24  
Old 04-03-2011, 01:00 AM
Mountain-Goat
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sound
Hi AC
I also enjoyed reading what you shared there.
This statement below was one of several that jumped out at me ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alternate Carpark
If someone tries to insult me by telling me I am fat, their insult has no affect because I know I am skinny.
If you are not offended because you are skinny, are you revealing that you would be offended if someone said the same thing and you were clinically overweight? Please know that i am not splitting hairs ... I am truly interested in your response .. i have also found myself moving beyond 'being' offended' a good deal of the time and have indeed pondered whether it is because i am, in part, becoming desensitized, as well as discovering that there is a lot less to be offended about lol
No no, splitting hairs is acceptable and welcomed, so thankyou sound.
It's exploring, getting into a thing, and I always enjoy and am enthusiastic to do so.
And upon you doing so it has revealed the error of the usage of that as an example.

Let me offer, upon reflection, a better example and answer to your enquiry.
~smiles~ Well I hope it's better. As I observe it, it looks way better.

Bin the overweight part because that is not part of my reality.

I am skinny, always have been. Whilst growing up, I never paid no heed to my physical appearance till my late pre teens and beyond.
I began to feel shame because men are big and strong and musclely, and I was becoming aware that I did not have that.
It's not only girls that have body image issues.

It quickly developed into such deep shame that it was painful to go swimming in public, with family I was ok.
Teens to 20's I would not wear shorts.
It never occured to me to do weights to build my body up.
My life for many years was a self feeding cycle that perpetuated the low self esteem.
Can't build the body up and like myself as that contradicts the worthless belief that was buried deep within.

So, during those years, if someone made fun of my skinny body, it would hurt deep, because it hit the wound, it exposed the shame.
Mid 30's was when I started the serious self exploring, and after many issues were sorted, it dawned on me that I actually like my skinny body.

Now, insults or jokes about it have no affect because I carry no wounds or shame of it.
Now, if someone said I was skinny, with intent to insult, I would simply congratulate them on their powers of observation,
and would then ask do they have issues with skinniness.

Regarding desensitivity.
And, it's been two days since reading your post, and the info from observing this word is still coming in.
Pages and pages. The difficulty is containing all this info in the least amount of words possible or choosing what to share.

Sensitivity is the ability to sense. It's neutral and it's only within the context of situations does the classification of good or bad form.
Put your hand next to fire, sensing informs and you pull away = good.
A person flirts with you, your senses translate the info into arousal, you have sex, this ends your marriage = bad.

Sensitivity is strongly linked with awareness. Awareness is the ability to see and understand. Seeing is a sense.
And this seeing is one's inner sight, one's insight. The sixth sense. The ability to see into a thing.
To get into it. To see beyond the range of the other five senses.
Sensitivity is needed to progress. To sense something is to be aware of it.

Being less sensitive can come from two opposing directions.
If an inner wound has been healed, you no longer feel pain there.
Erecting a defence around the self also produces less pain. Build a solid enough wall and no pain is felt. The thick skinned thing.

However, both ways are not a reduction in sensitivity. In both cases, the sensitivity, the ability to sense, is still the same.
The former produces less sensation because the wound is healed, and the latter produces less because nothing can touch the wound.
The only reason to form a thick skin is to protect self from harm, usually because harm has already been experienced.
The sensations/feelings have reduced but not the ability to sense - one's sensitivity.

There are several pros and cons to both ways, but I look at the end result.
With a wall, pain is reduced quickly, but healing is never achieved, one only thinks all is well.
With the other, it takes a lot longer to reduce the feelings, but eventually one is truly healed.

The dark night of the soul, the walking through the valley of shadow and death scenarios, they are by my experiences,
a person choosing to heal themself instead of hiding behind the safety of the wall.
Once healed, walls are no longer needed. Once healed, externals no longer affect or influence permanent change within.

But in order to take this journey and be successful at it, one must be keenly sensitive to see and feel the wounds that need healing.
But in doing so, it becomes a painful journey.
The wounds have to be touched, explored, gone into, understood. This is a painful process.
But as the journey progresses, the pain reduces as each wound is healed and pain gives way to enthusiasm and joy,
excitement of what will be the next wound to heal.

The more walls that are removed, the more freedom one has.
There is pain behind the wall, but compared to what one sees beyond the wall, the devastation of accumilated wounds, the pain behind the wall is small.
Venturing out beyond the relative comfort can be daunting. I ran back to my safe house many many times on my journey.
But each time I did venture out, I increased in understanding, courage, etc, within each tiny step.
15 years of one step at a time and I have arrived at a place of immense beauty, wonder and freedom.

~smiles~ Went off with the faeries again.
Work out the mechanism of your desensitivity. Look below the feelings, the sensations. Look and you will see.
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  #25  
Old 04-03-2011, 01:03 AM
Mountain-Goat
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Starbuck
Really useful post thanks
Quote:
Originally Posted by athribitstan
sweet. Sounds like you are right on. Thanks for the post
You're most welcome Starbuck and athribiristan.
Though I have no idea if my observations are right. They make sense, I use them, they work.
That's good enough for me and I remain fluid to change if new info comes to light.
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  #26  
Old 04-03-2011, 01:25 AM
Mountain-Goat
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lanbee
I agree also. It takes practice but it's so refreshing to "see" when others apparently can't. I am ready for everybody to start waking up.

Everyone can see lanbee. There's just different levels of sight.
It's how a person responds to what they see that determines their progress.

The terms 'blind', 'lost' and 'unconscious' are not absolutes.
There is no way for a person to wake up if they remain in an unconscious state.
In order for a person to awaken, they must have a percentage of awareness to do so.
They must be aware that there is a state beyond the state they are in to be willing to change,
otherwise they would remain asleep.

So, those that are awake or are awakening, shine your light on those still groping around in their dark worlds.
Don't wait, do something about it.

And the best light I have experienced is love. Compassionate understanding.
Shine your light into the world in your day to day activities.
People are watching all the time, looking for some kind of way out of their darkness.

"Be the change you want to see in the world" - The Dalia Lahma
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  #27  
Old 04-03-2011, 01:36 AM
Mountain-Goat
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackfellawhitefella
wow , that was cool

never seen that before


i think a lot of us went through the ...i wanna get out of this hellhole journey AC

your certainly not the only one

early on i remember a 'spiritualist worker' (easiest way to describe her) saying to me ...commit to the journey gary

'that' thoughting loop , is the trap


hmmmmmm , tough times indeed.

onya bloke
I so agree. Just look at all the people in here who are on journeys, the people who have books published sharing their insights from their journeys.

That "commit to the journey", was that a defining moment for you?
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  #28  
Old 04-03-2011, 06:55 AM
arive nan
Posts: n/a
 
I have taken these principles out for a bit of a spin. For the most part it has been brilliant. I’ll start by saying that. A friend of mine made a statement in our online group that hit a nerve with me. It was said to everyone, but it was an insult that applied to a large number of people including me whether he was thinking of me at the time or not. I felt hurt, because he knows it applies to me for one thing and it was unreasonable for another. He was arguing with someone who had a controversial viewpoint and insulting her profusely and included statements that negatively judged everyone who was not speaking up to throw insults at this girl and everyone who doesn’t speak up to throw insults at people like her in general.

If I were someone who had never been hurt by a person who wanted me to hate and insult the people he hates before I would have had a different perspective. This friend is not someone who would want to be hurtful towards me and he wasn’t very serious about this. But I was quite disturbed. Some very old wounds were irritated and I started to fear that he is like those others who had hurt me in the past, which is what I always wonder when someone does something that reminds me of them. I was angry that he would try to shame people, including me, into throwing profane insults at someone because he felt offended by her. I did speak up to say, without profanity, that they are both being illogical idiots. Then I later told him in private that I don’t share her controversial viewpoint. It took some bravery for me to start that conversation. I was still afraid that this guy would be doing a complete 180 in his behaviour towards me like others in the past have done. I fretted about it, then consulted my cards. Then when we chatted he was acting like his normal self towards me.

I still felt bothered by the whole thing. We became friends because I thought he accepted me the way I am. Now the way I am is not okay because I don’t like to swear at people he doesn’t like and verbally attack them? I was trying to figure out how seriously to take that and feeling confused and hurt. So I tried to apply some of these principles to the situation. Hurting people hurt others. This girl’s own insults weren’t the problem. It was the controversy involving a sensitive topic and her willful ignorance of how her viewpoint is disrespectful towards a large number of grieving people. I won’t go into detail. My friend doesn’t know how personally I take it when someone in any way sounds like they are trying to get me to become a weapon for them. He just knows he wanted more people to join him. He’s not fully aware of what he’s doing or why it is a problem. I could feel a bit less angry and hurt when focusing on that.

Then I tried to deal with my own ancient wounds. I couldn’t get very far with that except to spend some time thinking about the function they serve. I want to never again get close enough to the type of person who would inflict wounds like this on anyone. They have a supernatural quality in mind, like Harry Potter’s scar that throbs with pain when He Who Shall Not be Named is near. My friends actually did avoid saying the name of one of these guys. We’d say You Know Who instead or something. The name was censored on one of their forums. His personality is very much like Voldemort’s, as that character was modeled after the same personality disorder. I want these wounds healed, and my conscious efforts have gone towards this, but part of me is afraid that if they are gone it will be easier for the dark lords of the world to get near me and just inflict me with a new wound. That’s when I wonder if I have to heal this first or if I can become unhurtable first. Thinking about these things could bring me closer to the answer, but I still don’t know.

That’s also when I encounter a problem with the message that people choose to be hurt. It is not freeing for me. I know others find it to be for some reason. But for me it is a roadblock. I wonder “Why would I choose to be hurt? That’s not what I want. What is wrong with me that I would choose that? And why can’t I just stop then? What’s wrong with me that I can’t just stop?” It is the opposite of progress. I didn’t get past this thing that is a road block for me until I examined it enough to decide that it is not true in my opinion and I’m better off not believing it. It’s like saying people choose to fall down when they slip on some ice. Nobody chooses that. They’re not trying to fall down. It happens because they don’t see the ice, or they don’t have enough skill at sliding along without falling, or their shoes don’t have enough traction. It’s not what they are choosing to do. They are trying to stay upright. If they could use a different route with no ice on the path or they were practiced enough to slide along without falling that’s what they would do. But not everyone is able to do that.

Being hurt isn’t what people choose. Nobody would choose that if they were aware that not being hurt is an option and able to make use of that option. When someone tries to hurt another, they aren’t just handing that poison arrow over so that the recipient can plunge it into their own chest. They throw those arrows at a speed faster than would allow most people to get out of the way or catch it in mid-air. The ultimate solution is a matrixesque revelation that there is no arrow and no chest for it to plunge into, which is an enlightenment that few are ever able to achieve. Most people don’t even know that reaching this level of enlightenment is an option for them, and even those that do will not get there overnight. In the meantime, we are not deciding to let those arrows penetrate us. They hit us because we haven’t yet become able to fully prevent this. But if we believe that it is a choice anyway, that can complicate things. It can lead to confusing questions that have no answer because their premise is not entirely sound. I know some people benefit from believing it, but self-blame is an issue for me so it doesn’t work well with that. I might not be the only one like this.

I don’t mean to sound too critical. Really, it’s generally a quite helpful set of principles. I’m just sharing my experiments with them.
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  #29  
Old 04-03-2011, 12:16 PM
sound sound is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2010
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AC ... thank you for responding with such depth. Lots of things you expressed resonated with me. I understand totally where you are coming from with regards to 'being' thin. I was very thin for 26 yrs ... about 2 yrs ago i regained my 'average' weight for height, and have managed to keep it on, however reading about your past anxieties was like reading my memoirs lol I was always a healthy eater and it bothered me that others would think i was experiencing anorexia. In fact i attended a two day training session based on Eating Disorders as part of my work and I can remember being so conscious of what others in the class thought of me as i did truly look almost as thin as some of the patients in the video we viewed. As it happened, lunch was provided and i 'pigged out' as usual lol ... then i withheld going to the loo afterwards because i thought others would think I was going to 'purge' ... that was several years ago and wouldn't bother me in the slightest now ... i was much less secure in myself at that time.

Desensitized ... not the best choice of word i guess ... I suppose after reflecting on what you have shared, it isn't so much that i don't experience, or indeed try to block that 'sense' of this or that, but rather finding the strength of character to allow all that is "not effective' to flow around me instead of getting sucked into the vortex thanks again for your time and energy
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Many footfalls hollow out a pathway ....
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  #30  
Old 05-03-2011, 11:31 PM
blackfellawhitefella
Posts: n/a
 
i would like to say it was a defining moment AC , but i am nothing if not stubborn

being generally across my subject matter ,
i listen to few

and am quite willing to cut off my nose to spite my face in regards to doing things MY way

BUT .... i didn't stare down the oncoming train ,

so ... the journey continues



side note : i am the happiest , most content (also the brokest )and the most comfortable in my own skin , that i have so far expierienced in this paradigm

imagine if i had of taken the long term solution to the short term problem/s


what a waste of an opportunity



ps ,
thankyou Spirit, for carrying me , when i was unable to carry myself.





.
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