Difference Between Liberated and Realized Souls

[shivatar]

Originally Posted by kisalipa

Hello,

When you mean Perfect Understanding for Samadhi, what is that object or something which you wanted to understand or achieve perfect?? Can you please elaborate? When you say you meditate upon an object, then the best medium for God would be a human form instead of inert objects like statue. Ofcourse these inert object give an inspiration for theoretical devotion. But in reality these inert objects cant clarify your doubts which a human form does. Arjuna had several questions in mind regarding spirituality and Krishna answered them which is now referred as Bhagwat Gita. If you carefully look at the inert objects like statues in temples, all these have a form and they are in human shape mostly, which means you need to catch or have faith contemporary human form of God who alone can lead you to the goal. Remember Hanuman and gopikas the greatest devotee of all time in history, ONLY worshipped and did sacrifice for alive human form of God, Rama and Krishna respectively. THEY NEVER SAT IN SOME CAVES OR FOREST AND CHANTED PREVIOUS HUMAN OR ENERGETIC INCARNATIONS. Practical devotions is the essence of Spiritual Journey which alone has the highest fruit (NIVRUTTI). You see temples built for these greatest devotees like Hanuman and Radha(gopikas) who has done practical sacrifice for the Lord in Human form. Hence, they were given the highest fruit of become the Creator and above (Goloka).

Indeed. The lord has high praise for those who are selfless and willing to sacrifice their life for the life of all others. Early on in my spiritual journey I made a vow to give my life for the good of all. God rewarded me in a special way by giving me a vision and assisting me on a 40 day journey. That's my personal experience with sacrifice, or as I call it selfless sacrifice.

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by kisalipa

Hello,

When you mean Perfect Understanding for Samadhi, what is that object or something which you wanted to understand or achieve perfect?? Can you please elaborate? When you say you meditate upon an object, then the best medium for God would be a human form instead of inert objects like statue. Ofcourse these inert object give an inspiration for theoretical devotion. But in reality these inert objects cant clarify your doubts which a human form does. Arjuna had several questions in mind regarding spirituality and Krishna answered them which is now referred as Bhagwat Gita. If you carefully look at the inert objects like statues in temples, all these have a form and they are in human shape mostly, which means you need to catch or have faith contemporary human form of God who alone can lead you to the goal. Remember Hanuman and gopikas the greatest devotee of all time in history, ONLY worshipped and did sacrifice for alive human form of God, Rama and Krishna respectively. THEY NEVER SAT IN SOME CAVES OR FOREST AND CHANTED PREVIOUS HUMAN OR ENERGETIC INCARNATIONS. Practical devotions is the essence of Spiritual Journey which alone has the highest fruit (NIVRUTTI). You see temples built for these greatest devotees like Hanuman and Radha(gopikas) who has done practical sacrifice for the Lord in Human form. Hence, they were given the highest fruit of become the Creator and above (Goloka).

I am just giving you the true and actual Sanskrit translations of those words and you have done nothing to address that - you have just gone all straw-man and evaded the issue, asking me questions about those literal translations to deflect the fact that you were wrong.

I guess that is the difference between a Gaudiya Vaishnava (you) and a person who bases their teachings off Patanjali's Yoga Sutras, the Tantric teachings of Adi Shankaracharya and who is a Shaivite and a devotee of Lord Shiva (me).

[Shivani Devi]

To answer your question though, in all fairness "object" includes the murthy (idol) and any 'human form' of God - anything which can be perceived through the senses and sensory awareness, as true liberation is beyond the realm of the mind and all sensory input.

Although, having said that, I worship the 'human form' of Shiva and that has led to experiences beyond the senses and the mere 'human form' of Shiva and there's no other way it can be described really other than a 'perfect understanding' in which nothing is truly 'understood' anymore...but I guess that's why it is perfect...

Om Namah Shivaya

[kisalipa]

Can you please explain more on Human form of Lord Shiva? How did you perceive it?

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by kisalipa

Can you please explain more on Human form of Lord Shiva? How did you perceive it?

Thank you for your inquiry.

I'll just copy some posts I made about it before...and there are quite a few of them:

http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/sh...8&postcount=38

http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/sh...9&postcount=24

http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/sh...1&postcount=17

I perceive It as so amazing...awesome...just like you see it in the photos, but a little bit different to that.

I saw a picture an artist drew of Shiva once...I went "yup, that's IT...PERFECT...nailed it!



Now, I am being made aware of a past life in 13-14th century Java which has been knocking me around a lot today with memories that are not mine...

Past life experiences are the weirdest thing ever!

I have seen Shiva, experienced Shiva, talked to Shiva and I know it is Shiva beyond doubt.

...but when I love Shiva, I just don't perceive Shiva any more.

Har Har Mahadev!

[shivatar]

Originally Posted by The Necromancer

Thank you for your inquiry.

I'll just copy some posts I made about it before...and there are quite a few of them:

http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/sh...8&postcount=38

http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/sh...9&postcount=24

http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/sh...1&postcount=17

I perceive It as so amazing...awesome...just like you see it in the photos, but a little bit different to that.

I saw a picture an artist drew of Shiva once...I went "yup, that's IT...PERFECT...nailed it!



Now, I am being made aware of a past life in 13-14th century Java which has been knocking me around a lot today with memories that are not mine...

Past life experiences are the weirdest thing ever!

I have seen Shiva, experienced Shiva, talked to Shiva and I know it is Shiva beyond doubt.

...but when I love Shiva, I just don't perceive Shiva any more.

Har Har Mahadev!

Maybe Mahadev is telling you that to experience Mahadev connection again you'll need to find a new road. Love is one road. Discipline is one. Sacrifice is another. There are many paths. Sometimes just one is enough, sometimes we need to alternate.

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by shivatar

Maybe Mahadev is telling you that to experience Mahadev connection again you'll need to find a new road. Love is one road. Discipline is one. Sacrifice is another. There are many paths. Sometimes just one is enough, sometimes we need to alternate.

Yes, He has already told me that it's going to take discipline now. That's why my body is being physically afflicted so much. I cannot experience anything else but nagging pain in this state - no matter how much I pray to Him with love in my heart. He has already said that I need to do Tapas (austerity) now and go through a whole dramatic lifestyle change - fasting for 16 Mondays...doing certain Yoga postures...drinking apple cider vinegar (which I hate)...Taking megadoses of Haldee, Ashwaghanda, Salai Guggul...drinking 3 litres of water daily...doing particular kriyas and purification rituals and He has outlined everything...all for me. If I don't do this, I won't have much time left and I know it...just loving and worshiping him isn't enough...now I have to prove it through total dedication and trust...this is the biggest test of my life and my life hangs on it.

[alcyone]

Well...I say, they can be one and the same, and both.