Forgiving and the restoration of alignment

[sky]

Originally Posted by weareunity

Hello all.

Wondering about the part which the ability to understand behaviour plays in forgiveness ?

pete

I think that understanding the behaviour of the perpetrator plays a big part in your decision to forgive, sometimes we will never understand but you can but try. Everything is cause and effect and sometimes putting yourself in their shoes does help but not always. Forgiveness doesn't have to mean reconciliation, you can forgive and walk away, obviously it does depend on the circumstances, nothing is set in stone...

[weareunity]

Hello sky123.

And in understanding behaviour shall we apply that understanding to ourselves?--and if we do so, might we see a connection between unforgiving and revenge ?

What of the understanding of behaviour itself ? It is a powerful tool. How is it possible to control the purpose for which such a tool is used ?

pete

[sky]

Originally Posted by weareunity

Hello sky123.

And in understanding behaviour shall we apply that understanding to ourselves?--and if we do so, might we see a connection between unforgiving and revenge ?

What of the understanding of behaviour itself ? It is a powerful tool. How is it possible to control the purpose for which such a tool is used ?

pete

Yes we should try and understand our own behaviour. Revenge wouldn't exist in forgiveness, how could it.
Tools are there for our usage not the other way round, of course you can control the way you use them, I think so anyway.

[weareunity]

Hello sky123.

A quick reply wondering if my previous post has been misunderstood?

The question asked concerning "revenge" was considering the possibility of a connection between a desire for revenge and therefore being unforgiving. Forgiving some person/s for an occurrence and then seeking revenge against that same person/s for that same occurence being self evidently-well- nonsensical if forgiveness was sincere in the first place.

The question regarding the use of the understanding of behaviour is rather more complex. An individual having such understanding can of course use that understanding as a tool or not--as they choose--(with a caveat being imo that the choice to do so or not may not be clear to that individual who may themselves be acting under the influence of some form of coercion itself designed to influence their behaviour and thinking.) This possibility, also imo, is more real than we might imagine, the question then being--and intended in my previous post--is how can this possibility be avoided?

pete

[Busby]

Originally Posted by sky123

I see forgiveness as a decision rather than an emotion. When I forgive I make a decision not to allow the memories from the past inpact on how I respond to them now/in this moment.

Personally I have difficulties here. Not ever having taken umbrage I've never found the need to forgive. Not looking upon material things as being of any particular importance any damage to things in my so-called possession has been accepted by me as part of life. Any old flames who have walked off have had the right to do so - that's called freedom. Any other occasions where words, insults, or whatever have been dished out at my cost I have looked upon as being founded in weakness, jealousy, fear, low esteem and all the rest.
In this world there is nothing to forgive - we are all guilty.

[sky]

Originally Posted by weareunity

Hello sky123.

A quick reply wondering if my previous post has been misunderstood?

The question asked concerning "revenge" was considering the possibility of a connection between a desire for revenge and therefore being unforgiving. Forgiving some person/s for an occurrence and then seeking revenge against that same person/s for that same occurence being self evidently-well- nonsensical if forgiveness was sincere in the first place.

The question regarding the use of the understanding of behaviour is rather more complex. An individual having such understanding can of course use that understanding as a tool or not--as they choose--(with a caveat being imo that the choice to do so or not may not be clear to that individual who may themselves be acting under the influence of some form of coercion itself designed to influence their behaviour and thinking.) This possibility, also imo, is more real than we might imagine, the question then being--and intended in my previous post--is how can this possibility be avoided?

pete

I see what you mean now ( I think ) If you forgive how can you want revenge, of course some do say that they have forgiven and still seek revenge, I presume ' You will know them by their fruits '
What about some who seek revenge and then realise that they have made a great error and forgive, everyone is different, what works for one doesn't work for all.

Regarding ' coercion ' do you mean from outside influences?
The only way you can avoid this possibility is to not allow others to influence your own personal decisions, regardless.

[sky]

Originally Posted by Busby

Personally I have difficulties here. Not ever having taken umbrage I've never found the need to forgive. Not looking upon material things as being of any particular importance any damage to things in my so-called possession has been accepted by me as part of life. Any old flames who have walked off have had the right to do so - that's called freedom. Any other occasions where words, insults, or whatever have been dished out at my cost I have looked upon as being founded in weakness, jealousy, fear, low esteem and all the rest.
In this world there is nothing to forgive - we are all guilty.

Don't have difficulties Busby sounds like you have it all sorted and what a lovely way of looking at things.

[weareunity]

Hello sky 123.

I am aware of struggling to find words to express thoughts which come suddenly into mind--thanks for your forbearance. No debater myself, more a long time solitary pondering stumbler in often considerable discomfort in public.

As for ---" under the influence of some form of coercion"--to take a relatively benign example:- we only have to look at marketing to know that sometimes we are not even aware that we are being influenced. This is no hypnotism or hocus pocus, perhaps it has more to do with being unconsciously overwhelmed by artificially created norms ?

Cheers. pete

[FallingLeaves]

Originally Posted by weareunity

Hello sky 123.

I am aware of struggling to find words to express thoughts which come suddenly into mind--thanks for your forbearance. No debater myself, more a long time solitary pondering stumbler in often considerable discomfort in public.

As for ---" under the influence of some form of coercion"--to take a relatively benign example:- we only have to look at marketing to know that sometimes we are not even aware that we are being influenced. This is no hypnotism or hocus pocus, perhaps it has more to do with being unconsciously overwhelmed by artificially created norms ?

Cheers. pete

sometimes if you are unforgiving you may be out for revenge. But is it always the case? I dunno. As far as the coercion, yeah it happens and people are quite subtle about trying to get what they want by doing it. But fortunately it falls under the category of things God deliberately allows so that we will learn something. As does everything else 'bad' you might see those above us doing...

[sky]

Originally Posted by weareunity

Hello sky 123.

I am aware of struggling to find words to express thoughts which come suddenly into mind--thanks for your forbearance. No debater myself, more a long time solitary pondering stumbler in often considerable discomfort in public.

As for ---" under the influence of some form of coercion"--to take a relatively benign example:- we only have to look at marketing to know that sometimes we are not even aware that we are being influenced. This is no hypnotism or hocus pocus, perhaps it has more to do with being unconsciously overwhelmed by artificially created norms ?

Cheers. pete

I have the same problem, I try to express my thoughts and sometimes they come out upside down, inside out and back to front

Some are more easily influenced than others so we have to understand that and ' stick to our guns '. Mybe by using intuition rather than thoughts is the answer, another way is just to forgive, full stop.... then you don't need to make decisions, easier said than done though.

I personally find it easy to forgive but hard to forget, I am working on that .
We can but try and it's ok to get things wrong sometimes, nobody is perfect even though the TV Advertisement tells me that if I use this certain ' Face cream ' for a week I will have perfect skin