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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Non Duality

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  #1  
Old 01-08-2017, 02:56 PM
Moondance Moondance is offline
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The whole thing

About twenty years ago I lived in a rural location where at certain times of the year I would climb to the top of a hill from where I could sit and watch the sun set. But of course the sun never did set. I came to clearly experience the 'sunset' as the Earth slowly tipping backwards until it obscured the sun. This is a weird and slightly thrilling feeling.

Now imagine not having prior knowledge about the rotation of the Earth and just spontaneously having this felt-sense insight. Well that's kind of what happened to me about eighteen years ago when I tried meditation as a form of relaxation. I wasn't a seeker (in fact I was a skeptic about anything spiritual.) I had a (what might be called) spontaneous shift in perspective. Everything stayed exactly the same (as with the Earths rotation) but was seen in a new light (so to speak.)

There can be the felt-sense that there is no separate entity moving about in Life… Instead Life, THIS (the whole thing - or the whole no-thing if you prefer) is the movement. It's as if there is a switch from the focus being on this fragment (me) to the sense of the whole event that is. It's not that there is no you or no individuated perspective, it's the seeing that this too is a movement/play of Life.

Of course when anyone asks me about this I say try meditation (simply being open to what is - as it is) or spend some time in nature. To me this seems obvious and natural. But I realise that this is my bias - this is part of my interpretation of this core realisation. Someone who has come to this by questioning existence might suggest doing that… and so on. The core realisation is universal but the descriptions, elaborations and stories of shifts and awakenings, pointers and paths (including the path that claims there is no path) are subject to biases and conditioning etc.
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  #2  
Old 01-08-2017, 09:34 PM
iamthat iamthat is offline
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I think I can relate to this. Many years ago I had a profound series of realisations. Afterwards it was very interesting being a passenger in a car, because I could just sit back without having to focus on the driving. Instead of me moving in the car through the surrounding streets and environment, I found that I was completely still, and all the houses, trees, etc were moving past me. And I was already at the destination, and eventually all the moving scenery revealed the destination where I already was.

It's a bit hard to explain, and this is still present but it no longer has the same impact as in those early days. We get accustomed to anything.

Peace.
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  #3  
Old 02-08-2017, 12:20 PM
Moondance Moondance is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamthat
I think I can relate to this. Many years ago I had a profound series of realisations. Afterwards it was very interesting being a passenger in a car, because I could just sit back without having to focus on the driving. Instead of me moving in the car through the surrounding streets and environment, I found that I was completely still, and all the houses, trees, etc were moving past me. And I was already at the destination, and eventually all the moving scenery revealed the destination where I already was.

It's a bit hard to explain, and this is still present but it no longer has the same impact as in those early days. We get accustomed to anything.

Peace.

Thanks, iamthat, that's interesting.

What you describe sounds like an heightened sense of the witness. I’ve read something similar by the writer Douglas Harding. He described sitting in his car watching the telegraph poles fly by and having the sense that he was the still point from which it all occurred. What I’m talking about is probably related but is in a sense more ordinary.

I think that everyone has had a glimpse of it at some point and I’m pretty certain that it is more or less our outlook as a small child/baby. My intuition (and it almost feels like a memory) is that when we were very small - if we could have articulated it - we would have naturally assumed that we were this energetic happening that is Life itself - nothing less (of course, still subject to the limitations of biology which arise in that.) In my view this sense that we are THIS, this great event, is the default, natural, original state. It’s not an experience alongside other experiences. it’s the ’state’ which is revealed when the overlay of analytical/reflective/ruminative mind subsides to some degree.
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  #4  
Old 03-08-2017, 05:41 AM
Iamit Iamit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moondance
About twenty years ago I lived in a rural location where at certain times of the year I would climb to the top of a hill from where I could sit and watch the sun set. But of course the sun never did set. I came to clearly experience the 'sunset' as the Earth slowly tipping backwards until it obscured the sun. This is a weird and slightly thrilling feeling.

Now imagine not having prior knowledge about the rotation of the Earth and just spontaneously having this felt-sense insight. Well that's kind of what happened to me about eighteen years ago when I tried meditation as a form of relaxation. I wasn't a seeker (in fact I was a skeptic about anything spiritual.) I had a (what might be called) spontaneous shift in perspective. Everything stayed exactly the same (as with the Earths rotation) but was seen in a new light (so to speak.)

There can be the felt-sense that there is no separate entity moving about in Life… Instead Life, THIS (the whole thing - or the whole no-thing if you prefer) is the movement. It's as if there is a switch from the focus being on this fragment (me) to the sense of the whole event that is. It's not that there is no you or no individuated perspective, it's the seeing that this too is a movement/play of Life.

Of course when anyone asks me about this I say try meditation (simply being open to what is - as it is) or spend some time in nature. To me this seems obvious and natural. But I realise that this is my bias - this is part of my interpretation of this core realisation. Someone who has come to this by questioning existence might suggest doing that… and so on. The core realisation is universal but the descriptions, elaborations and stories of shifts and awakenings, pointers and paths (including the path that claims there is no path) are subject to biases and conditioning etc.

Even if the switch you refer to is not made there is still no disconnection from Oneness for it must already be Oneness unswitched. There really is no possibility of disconnection from Oneness. The feeling of disconnection is itself Oneness manifesting as that feeling.
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  #5  
Old 03-08-2017, 12:24 PM
Moondance Moondance is offline
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Originally Posted by Iamit
Even if the switch you refer to is not made there is still no disconnection from Oneness for it must already be Oneness unswitched.

Yes, Oneness is always, already the case. And that very realisation is a version of the ‘switch’.
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  #6  
Old 03-08-2017, 12:27 PM
Moondance Moondance is offline
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Originally Posted by Iamit
There really is no possibility of disconnection from Oneness. The feeling of disconnection is itself Oneness manifesting as that feeling.

Agreed, “there really is no possibility of disconnection from Oneness.” But this realisation that “there really is no possibility of disconnection from Oneness” is NOT the case... until it is.
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  #7  
Old 03-08-2017, 09:58 PM
FallingLeaves FallingLeaves is offline
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one of you emphasizes the 'definition' of oneness as the meaning, the other emphasizes the 'feeling' of being disconnected as the meaning. Based on your existing emphasis you draw different conclusions, and you each defend your own turf... and never the twain shall meet. But I guess fighting is fun
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  #8  
Old 04-08-2017, 10:27 AM
Moondance Moondance is offline
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Originally Posted by FallingLeaves
one of you emphasizes the 'definition' of oneness as the meaning, the other emphasizes the 'feeling' of being disconnected as the meaning. Based on your existing emphasis you draw different conclusions, and you each defend your own turf... and never the twain shall meet. But I guess fighting is fun

I’m not sure that your summary does justice to the subtlety of what’s going on here, FL. You see a fight where I see playfulness - I sense some humor (possibly a touch of absurdity) in this. :)
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  #9  
Old 27-08-2018, 06:19 AM
Alice_1 Alice_1 is offline
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The best meditation: sit and watch the sunrise or sunset.
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