About forgiving

Originally Posted by Gemcrusader

Forgiving is not possible or has no effect if the perpetuator does NOT reckognize his actions.

The reason why a sorry can be so empty. And basicly means nothing. Its about letting quarter fall trough. If there are words and discussion, yet u feel the quarter is not going trough its meaningless.

If we're going down the right/wrong route then it doesn't really matter if the other person recognises the 'wrong' or not, you feel you have been wronged so it's you that has to forgive regardless of if the other person acknowledges it or not. Forgiveness isn't dependent on being mutual.

The reason it can be so empty is that you're not looking for forgiveness but for the other person to acknowledge the 'wrong' they have done you. Perhaps it's by way of payback in a small way, or basic human nature.

The thing is we're here to 'learn the lessons', to 'grow Spiritually' and other phrases of that ilk but some people tend to forget that the best lessons are learned through hardship of some kind. In some cases people look to Spirituality to answer the 'wrongs' they've encountered in their Lives' and if 'wrongs' are done to us one of two things happen, we succumb to them or grow stronger. If we made the choices as Spirit didn't we choose the 'wrongs' as well as the 'rights' as part of our Spiritual development?

[Gemcrusader]

well it all depends on if i want or can take it. If i cant take it or damages me i want the other person to acknowledge it. Period.

[Gemcrusader]

or im i too stubborn..?

[linen53]

It's not something you can just wake up one morning and say, Gee, I think I need to forgive so-and-so.

There is no crime for those who cannot forgive. It is simply where they are in the matrix. For me anyway, I have to work through the issue myself before I am okay with forgiving.

And while we are on the subject, forgiving has nothing to do with trusting the person who has hurt you. You can forgive and keep the relationship at a distance so as not be be hurt by them again.

Originally Posted by Gemcrusader

Sorry for another thread but anyway.

So today i was looking up somethin about it. Like in a dictionary. You know what it means but not totally so you look it up (or not)

What made this click, and what i also allready kinda realized but not fully is this:

Forgiving is not possible or has no effect if the perpetuator does NOT reckognize his actions.

The reason why a sorry can be so empty. And basicly means nothing. Its about letting quarter fall trough. If there are words and discussion, yet u feel the quarter is not going trough its meaningless.

It depends how a person interprets forgiveness.

On one hand, the need to forgive is connected to blame. If one doesn't blame, then there is nothing to forgive. Blaming is connected to a feeling of lacking any control over the situation. In this interpretation, then yes, you are right, forgiving someone will have no effect, because you are waiting for them to take the pain away from you.

If that is the way that we interpret forgiveness, then perhaps it is pointless unless an 'other' asks for that. However, it is equally pointless to hold onto your pain, waiting for someone else to take it away - you don't need to forgive anyone in order to let the pain go.

Which brings me to another interpretation of forgiveness - this is that forgiveness is the act of letting go of blame. So that means no blaming an other and no blaming yourself, just no blaming at all. To let go of blame, isn't to condone any action that has hurt you, it is to accept your experience and take back the control over it.

At this point, the pain becomes your own, and in this way it is now the pain being felt by your good friend (yourself). You see, when the pain is in the hands of your enemy (when he 'makes' you feel pain) then you try to fight it. But when the pain is being felt by a friend (you), then you would be more likely to allow that friend to talk, to shout and cry, and you would comfort them and hug them until they have no more tears.

So, when forgiveness is interpreted as letting go of blame, then it gives you back control over your life.

[wanchain]

Originally Posted by Gemcrusader

or im i too stubborn..?

Yes.

Greenslade has a good explanation of life lessons. All unpleasant experiences are lessons meant to teach you to silent your ego. When the ego is no longer in control, the soul shines through (as wisdom and beauty).

[Gemcrusader]

sure but in reality u need more then ur soul to succeed in what u want.

[linen53]

Ivy, you're right forgiveness and blame are associated. I like your explanation. Thanks.

[A human Being]

Yeah, very good post Ivy

I think maybe we seek forgiveness for perceived wrongs committed against us, because our sense of self feels diminished in some way. Whereas if you've realised yourself as immortal, formless spirit, lacking in nothing, then maybe you just don't take it personally and you can let it go?

[A human Being]

Originally Posted by Gemcrusader

sure but in reality u need more then ur soul to succeed in what u want.

Maybe desire is the problem. Are your desires self-less, or self-serving?