No God

[Gem]

The Buddhist religion is quite unique among the mainstream religions because it is not based on God.


I know there are Bells and whistles and Buddhism is as confused as any other religion, but I did my time studying meditation and we had many different people from all different religions attend our retreats, including Buddhist monks from various other sects.



The idea is, the teachings of the Buddha are not sectarian, but universal, so it doesn't matter what religion you are. You are breathing just like anyone else and you can observe the breath regardless of your religious beliefs. Indeed there is nothing to believe - you just feel the sensation of yourself breathing -

[django]

I've actually been thinking about this a bit for a few days, both God and all deities are most likely just human inventions as far as I can understand.

I don't fundamentally agree with the Buddha's conclusions though, I think there is more to it than that, but not in the form of deities, more in the form of our personal energy bodies and fulfilling their existing potential. I reject accepting things as they are, I prefer striving to realise our potential.

[Shivani Devi]

With trepidation, this Hindu walks into the Buddhist forum, where the topic up for discussion is the (non) existence of God.

There are a few points of interest, in that according to the Vajrayana tradition of Tibetan Buddhism, tribal deities still exist and are still worshiped as "Gods" in that "God" represents any supernatural or supernal being (Deva) possessing mystical powers and attributes ascribed to the notion of a "Transcendent Divinity".

....but yes, we are speaking about notions, concepts, ideas, perceptions whichever way it goes; "God" or "No God"...."Self" or "No Self" for if God does not exist, then neither does Buddha...I see many people worship Buddha AS God...waving incense, offering prostration....venerating the noble one, but what have they done? They have just replaced one concept "God" with another "Buddha".

That is why the saying exists; "If you see Buddha on the road, kill him"...
"If you see God on the road, kill him.."

...and maybe you will find that it isn't as easy to kill a Buddha or a God as one may think...maybe you will succeed and then God will come back to life..."missed me"!

Whatever we like to think is just the ego...the ego says there is a God...the ego says there is no God...that is why Buddha would say "there is a God" or "there is no God" depending on who was asking the question of "Does God exist?" Buddha would only say whatever that person wanted to hear because in the end and at a personal level, what an individual believes is all that matters to them.

Like you said to me once, Gem...you quoted "The Boxer" from Simon and Garfunkel "a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest".

So, if a man believes in God, he will only hear those who say that God exists..if a man does not believe in God, he will only hear those who will say that God does not exist.

[Dargor]

They nailed it with the fact that God doesn't exist, not to mention some of it's wise teachings not found in the bible. So Buddhism might be far more advanced than most other religions, although in the end it's still a religion.

[Altair]

Originally Posted by django

I've actually been thinking about this a bit for a few days, both God and all deities are most likely just human inventions as far as I can understand.

I don't fundamentally agree with the Buddha's conclusions though, I think there is more to it than that, but not in the form of deities, more in the form of our personal energy bodies and fulfilling their existing potential. I reject accepting things as they are, I prefer striving to realise our potential.

You could also follow a distinction between a creator god and deities in general. From a spiritual perspective there is easily room for higher, powerful beings that may carry a 'god' or 'goddess' title, something that returns also in (some) Buddhist beliefs (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhist_deities), but this is not the same as a ''creator God'', which is fundamental in Abrahamic religion and various Hindu beliefs.

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by Altair

You could also follow a distinction between a creator god and deities in general. From a spiritual perspective there is easily room for higher, powerful beings that may carry a 'god' or 'goddess' title, something that returns also in (some) Buddhist beliefs (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhist_deities), but this is not the same as a ''creator God'', which is fundamental in Abrahamic religion and various Hindu beliefs.

Why I said what I did in my previous post and why I decided to post on this thread in the first place..

Please be patient and hear me out.

In the Hindu belief, the "Creator God" is called Brahma, the "Preserver God" is called Vishnu and the "Destroyer God" is called Shiva.

There really isn't a "one size fits all" as far as the Hindu pantheon is concerned, although it isn't uncommon for followers of one Deity to say that all other Deities are merely manifestations/avatars of their chosen celestial representative...but I digress.

Another name for Lord Shiva is Maha Kala or the Lord of Time...often seen dancing as Nataraja within the "cosmic clock circle" or as a fierce, terrible Deity called Kala Bhairava or "The Black Lord". In Tibetan Tantric Buddhism, particularly the Bon Tradition, Lord Shiva is worshiped as Maha Kala Bernagchen "The Black-Cloaked Time Lord" who looks for all the world like the Hindu version of Bhairava Shiva..in fact, they could be twins from different mothers.

As well as being known as Maha Kala, Lord Shiva is also called Maharaja Dewata...or The King of the Devas...so whatever these Devas/Gods/Demigods are ..there is one who stands out, way above and beyond the rest of them as far as power and spiritual attainment is concerned.

Then we also have the Dharmapalas or the "Lords of Dharma" which are considered to be "Gods" as they came from the mind of Vairochana who is the ancient, primordial Buddha...the Buddha of Buddhas..where all Buddhas get their Buddha-hood from....aka..."GOD"...it is also very strange how linguistically, the word "Vairochana" is a dialectical variation of the word "Bhairava"...but that is a story for another day.

[inavalan]

Seth / Roberts teachings / books might be a better interpretation of the Unknown, as well as of the Known.

Most religions started from glimpses into a higher source of knowledge, interpreted / distorted by the beliefs of the channel. Then, successively, those original glimpses went through involuntary and voluntary transformations, most of them diverging from the original meaning.

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted by Gem

The Buddhist religion is quite unique among the mainstream religions because it is not based on God.

Not based on God but the ones i know, believe in Gods/gods.

One that saved my life once was Hotei. I got stranded one day and one person who was suppose to send me some of my own money didn't think I needed the money. So, I ended up with no money to buy food and no money to go to the airport so as to change my ticket so I could fly back home.
As I was walking down the street, I met a person I hadn't seen for some time. What was more surprising, he never ventured into that part of the city let alone in the evening. For some reason, I showed him my jade statue of Hotei that I had in my pocket. When he saw the statue, his eyes lit up. I was surprise when he said he wanted to buy that statue. I told him it was not for sale. Selling that statue to him was an exercise in vanity because he was well known for not paying hardly anything for things he would buy. He said for me to give him a price so I did which was a high price. Without quibbling, he paid the price: didn't even want a discount.
Lo and behold, now I had money for 2 days worth of meals and taxi fare to the airport. Hard to believe a statue I had just bought for $.50 was worth so much.

[JustBe]

Originally Posted by Gem

The Buddhist religion is quite unique among the mainstream religions because it is not based on God.


I know there are Bells and whistles and Buddhism is as confused as any other religion, but I did my time studying meditation and we had many different people from all different religions attend our retreats, including Buddhist monks from various other sects.



The idea is, the teachings of the Buddha are not sectarian, but universal, so it doesn't matter what religion you are. You are breathing just like anyone else and you can observe the breath regardless of your religious beliefs. Indeed there is nothing to believe - you just feel the sensation of yourself breathing -

About fifteen years ago after a number of years self healing surface layers, I went through a mystical awakening/dark night of the soul, the whole process of opening to my fear of life and death, my crisis of faith, my feelings of ‘my god my god, why have you abandoned me, the deeper containment in my subconscious, my fear to feel differently, my fear to live in and with the unknown all came to light..

Then I realized..

Then I had to apply this unfolding of ceasing the old ways of being, into a new way of being..

The world teaches us stuff about who we are, what we are made of, what to believe and how to be in the world.

My inner world now shows me what I am, what I’m made of, what I believe in and how to be in this world.

Transformation, Clarity of being and illumination bridges ignorance, fear and changes everything even the god concept..

An open clear mind/body in balance, moves as it’s own ‘aliveness’ ...

[Gem]

It can be twisted to make Gods appear, but this is the way the mind wrests the inexplicable by telling stories. One can see the way the way the mind fabricates this and we end up with thousands of sects that tell different stories and a plethora of sectarian Gods.



The teacher Gotama was not talking about Gods. He was only saying there is suffering in the world and it can be resolved. Apparently no one caught on - probably because one has to face reality (no easy feat) - and people continue to imagine sectarian Gods in preference to being truthful with themselves.






I know when I talk about the feeling of your breath the mind will concoct visions of prana energy and so on in order to distract itself from the actuality of sensation which you can simply feel. All of a sudden mind creates a special magic breath other than the sensation which is there, and this excitement is a favoured form of distraction.


Ive been through it during my meditation studies. The mind tried to imagine the breath as a special kind of light or life force, but it isn't. It turns out it is the sensation as it is experienced without any imagination added to it. That's where the story ends and the reality begins, because it is simply true 'this is the feeling as it is'. That doesn't explain anything, which is very unsatisfying, so the mind starts to make stuff up as a means of distraction and before a minute is gone you are no longer paying attention to the real lived as mind has swept you away. People want an answer, abstract knowledge, a belief no matter how implausible, and do not want to be aware of 'what is', just as it is, just in the way it is experienced.


To me it is amazing that a context so simple as the feeling of your breathing makes the sectarian beliefs people give so much importance to completely irrelevant. I say feel your breathing and everyone knows that regardless of their spiritual beliefs. How is it that these beliefs are contextually irrelevant to actuality?