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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Spiritual Development

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  #31  
Old 01-11-2019, 12:54 AM
davidsun davidsun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IndigoGeminiWolf
It seems every teacher I have sought has either stopped working with me after working with me a few months, or stopped before we started.
My guess is that the multiple similar/overlapping 'results' you report is 'feedback' worth deciphering in terms of info containing 'messages' to you about your self and/or your path.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IndigoGeminiWolf
Is this the Universe saying that we don't need teachers?
Everyone's personality and (consequent) journey is unique. The 'we' in your hypothetical strikes me as being a over-generalizing 'leap'.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IndigoGeminiWolf
Should I just seek inside, like doing shamanic journeying and such?
What is your intuition telling you in this regard? (Note, however: I don't think anyone's intuition is necessarily 'right', but what it suggests or counter-suggests may be the best 'lead' for you/anyone to explore and 'learn' from.)
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Last edited by davidsun : 01-11-2019 at 02:28 PM.
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  #32  
Old 01-11-2019, 01:06 AM
Shivani Devi Shivani Devi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jyotir
Maybe they are being kind and don't want to discourage you.

The best thing is to do is practice the inner work based on sincere devotion and dedication without expectation, and let the right teacher find you.

That is how it really happens even if that is counterintuitive.


~ J
I fully agree with this.

In the ideal situation, a teacher would be akin to a loving parent, grandparent or even a spirit guide... molding your will...shaping your destiny.

They would gently guide and pursuade you rather than barking instructions like a drill sergeant and would want what is best for the student (chela) rather than what is best for themselves by having the chela act or behave in a certain way...it is a very intimate but difficult relationship, as egos will invariably clash.

Not many are cut out to be a Guru, lacking the necessary patience, selflessness, detachment to administrative duties...but even less are cut out to be a chela..to subdue their ego for long enough to surrender to the Guru without question! If the Guru requests them to muck out the latrines for a week, to sit at the back of the room during satsanga, to eat only after everybody else has eaten...there should be NO hesitation in doing whatever is asked of you...to accept a Guru means to do all those things the ego finds abhorrent.

Many will say "I don't need a Guru, I am my OWN Guru!" Really though, the ego loves that because it gets to shirk any and all responsibility towards Spiritual growth...there will be nobody there to throw a bucket of ice water over you if you fail to get up at 5am to sit for meditation...there will be nobody there to make sure you don't fall off the vegetarian wagon by forcing you to eat kaleslaw for a week if you nibbled on a chicken bone...

I often compare a "Guru" with a "personal trainer"....the personal trainer makes the student work hard for a fit body and mind, whilst the Guru makes the student work hard for a fit countenance..to get rid of "conditioned habits" which may distract the seeker from any spiritual progress like a Facebook addiction or believing they are entitled to do whatever they want in the name of "spirituality" and over time, the "men" are going to be sorted out from the "boys" in regards...to coin a sexist, politically incorrect phrase.

Not many people have the ability to willingly put themselves into a situation where they can fully surrender to an "authority figure" because of the way they have been raised to believe they don't need to...not many have the capability to attain Moksha (liberation) either, because they will say "my ego has got this...I can attain Moksha by being a lazy, selfish, superficial, arrogant, uncaring slob" because they fully believe they can do that....if they honestly believe that, good luck to them in this lifetime and the many lives to come...maybe they will meet a Guru next time around if it is in their Karma...if Chitragupta has written it down in the Akashic Records somewhere.

See, I know that I cannot do this on my own...I don't trust myself enough to make the "right choices" in my life and I have a string of personal failures as a living testiment to my inability to act responsibly and while many others will say "you just need to have more faith in yourself", it is my "faith in myself" which gets me into all of this mess in the first place! I need to learn humility and that's what a Guru is there for.
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  #33  
Old 01-11-2019, 07:50 AM
IndigoGeminiWolf IndigoGeminiWolf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ocean breeze
How else would people get their degrees or learn basic reading, writing, and math?

Sadhguru said the same thing about needing teachers for a,b,c's so you need one for enlightenment. Or so it's easier.
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  #34  
Old 01-11-2019, 09:14 AM
JustASimpleGuy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IndigoGeminiWolf
Sadhguru said the same thing about needing teachers for a,b,c's so you need one for enlightenment. Or so it's easier.

If you're talking about gaining enlightenment through Eastern teachings like Buddhism or Hinduism you can get by without a teacher. It might not be easy but it is doable. In fact Advaita Vedanta philosophy emphasizes a heavy knowledge component and all the pertinent lectures are online and they are very good. So you'd have a teacher and yet you wouldn't. Might be worth at least looking into it to see if it resonates. Swami Sarvapriyananda is also a very good speaker and easy to listen to. https://www.youtube.com/user/vedantany1894

That's the main page and this is a Q&A from one of his talks as an example of what you can expect. https://youtu.be/7_28hZeQtVM

If through Shamanism I have no idea.
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  #35  
Old 01-11-2019, 09:18 AM
ocean breeze ocean breeze is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IndigoGeminiWolf
Sadhguru said the same thing about needing teachers for a,b,c's so you need one for enlightenment. Or so it's easier.

Only one teacher for the whole world? What if that teacher gets sick or is on vacation? Would there be a substitute teacher teaching the entire world?

I'm not sure if i would trust a sad guru, maybe a happy one.
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  #36  
Old 02-11-2019, 12:53 AM
Starman Starman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IndigoGeminiWolf
If our inner being is already perfect, why does it still change?

Doesn't perfection mean not changing?
In my opinion we change because we exist in time but our deeper being exists beyond time and does not change. As we grow into and consciously merge with our deeper being our experience of it changes; our perspective and perception changes.
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  #37  
Old 02-11-2019, 01:04 AM
Starman Starman is offline
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A lot of teachers do not know what to expect when they take on a student. Not all students learn the same way and they come with all sorts of baggage. Some will learn rather quickly while others do not. Lots of expectations are placed on and external teacher as well as their students. Think about how it was when you were in school, the learning curve and how some students found it easy while others thought it was very hard. And then there are all of the preconceived ideas. A teacher works with a students mind, attitude, etc.
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  #38  
Old 06-11-2019, 04:53 PM
zorkchop zorkchop is offline
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As with all learnings in LIFE . . . we initially learn by trial-and-error . . . ending in personal experience. Eventually we learn to cut down on the number of blind “trials” by seeking advice from someone that already knows what we wish to know or has already been to where we wish to go. This still culminates in a degree of trial-and-error in determining whether the “instructors” methods or information will work for us.

One of the tricks is knowing . . . what do YoU wish to learn or where do YoU wish to go? This leads to the search for a suitable teacher. One learns to not go duck-hunting in the desert. One tends to realize that you do not learn surgery from a banker. If one wishes to be a banker ( or a surgeon, etc. ) then one goes where that is taught.

When contending with the psychic worlds of mind, body, emotions . . . teachers and information is seemingly endless. Even after wishing to learn, know, and practice all of the many psychic facets . . . crystals, healing, ghosts, being a medium, etc. . . . at the end of a thousand lifetimes of that . . . where has that gotten you? Don’t get me wrong here . . . those thousand lifetimes can be exquisitely adventurous . . . but . . . there is always another step . . . one that goes “deeper” or beyond where you are at the moment.

By design . . . teachers are necessary to take certain steps on the Path. Yes . . . maybe one in a billion ( probably a low guess ) can do it completely on their own . . . and if one wishes to be that “one” . . . be my guest. The search for a teacher to truly take one beyond the psychic worlds . . . and this step involves and includes definite and recognizable landmarks or road signs so one is not “guessing” or being deluded by self-deception . . . this search to find a teacher to take the “final steps” is by design . . . necessary . . . and almost demands that one face a few more core beliefs or issues that they have kept hidden or camouflaged inside themselves forever.

So . . . if one needs a teacher . . . it greatly depends on what one wishes to know . . . what one wishes to learn . . . and how far to go from where they are. The farther one goes . . . the more difficult it is to find a viable and competent teacher. The more capable and learned the student . . . the more likely they are to find a suitable teacher . . . but few of those that take the student beyond the psychic worlds will be standing in plain sight with placards advertising their ability and knowledge. That has rarely fared well in the human condition.

The old saying of “When the student is ready a teacher will appear” can be quite true. A great difficulty comes when the individual wants to move beyond what is openly taught and accepted by the mass religions, philosophies, and cultures. A true and valid instructor may be standing right in plain view but is unrecognized because what that instructor offers and teaches is so little known. The student is tryin to take that proverbial step into the “Unknown” . . . and there are few that have taken that step successfully . . . let alone are willing to be easily found.

People most often wish to make the “deeper Truths” fall in line with what they already believe and know. These final steps into the true spiritual worlds usually involve intense and frightening mental struggles. These steps are NOT easily taken by the individual no matter whom the teacher may be.

The “classroom” of the psychic worlds is designed as it is . . . because it works. Since the Real Self . . . Soul . . . lives forever . . . what else is one going to do with their time?
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  #39  
Old 06-11-2019, 07:16 PM
davidsun davidsun is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Arizona, U.S.A
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zorkchop
As with all learnings in LIFE . . . we initially learn by trial-and-error . . . ending in personal experience. Eventually we learn to cut down on the number of blind “trials” by seeking advice from someone that already knows what we wish to know or has already been to where we wish to go. This still culminates in a degree of trial-and-error in determining whether the “instructors” methods or information will work for us.

One of the tricks is knowing . . . what do YoU wish to learn or where do YoU wish to go? This leads to the search for a suitable teacher. One learns to not go duck-hunting in the desert. One tends to realize that you do not learn surgery from a banker. If one wishes to be a banker ( or a surgeon, etc. ) then one goes where that is taught.

When contending with the psychic worlds of mind, body, emotions . . . teachers and information is seemingly endless. Even after wishing to learn, know, and practice all of the many psychic facets . . . crystals, healing, ghosts, being a medium, etc. . . . at the end of a thousand lifetimes of that . . . where has that gotten you? Don’t get me wrong here . . . those thousand lifetimes can be exquisitely adventurous . . . but . . . there is always another step . . . one that goes “deeper” or beyond where you are at the moment.

By design . . . teachers are necessary to take certain steps on the Path. Yes . . . maybe one in a billion ( probably a low guess ) can do it completely on their own . . . and if one wishes to be that “one” . . . be my guest. The search for a teacher to truly take one beyond the psychic worlds . . . and this step involves and includes definite and recognizable landmarks or road signs so one is not “guessing” or being deluded by self-deception . . . this search to find a teacher to take the “final steps” is by design . . . necessary . . . and almost demands that one face a few more core beliefs or issues that they have kept hidden or camouflaged inside themselves forever.

So . . . if one needs a teacher . . . it greatly depends on what one wishes to know . . . what one wishes to learn . . . and how far to go from where they are. The farther one goes . . . the more difficult it is to find a viable and competent teacher. The more capable and learned the student . . . the more likely they are to find a suitable teacher . . . but few of those that take the student beyond the psychic worlds will be standing in plain sight with placards advertising their ability and knowledge. That has rarely fared well in the human condition.

The old saying of “When the student is ready a teacher will appear” can be quite true. A great difficulty comes when the individual wants to move beyond what is openly taught and accepted by the mass religions, philosophies, and cultures. A true and valid instructor may be standing right in plain view but is unrecognized because what that instructor offers and teaches is so little known. The student is tryin to take that proverbial step into the “Unknown” . . . and there are few that have taken that step successfully . . . let alone are willing to be easily found.

People most often wish to make the “deeper Truths” fall in line with what they already believe and know. These final steps into the true spiritual worlds usually involve intense and frightening mental struggles. These steps are NOT easily taken by the individual no matter whom the teacher may be.

The “classroom” of the psychic worlds is designed as it is . . . because it works. Since the Real Self . . . Soul . . . lives forever . . . what else is one going to do with their time?
Well thought out and sated (IMO), Zork.

Here's my caveat regarding 'teachers', the instruction-following of whom often results in whole 'lineages' of people more or less often just becoming 'clones':
Now, whether they present themselves as being ‘religious’, ‘spiritual’, ‘philosophical’ or just plain ‘psychological’, all psychospiritually oriented wisdom schools and teachers list a hierarchy of goals to aim for as well as advocate specific approaches or methods whereby aspirations in said regards may be functionally actualized as part of their curriculum. Which is well and good for beginning student‑learners, but the fact is that the superordinate Realm (i.e. Reality) of Love and Joy’s Being-n-Doing is far too extensive (besides being ever‑expanding!) for there to be an ‘ultimate’ Love and Joy destiny or ‘best’ Love and Joy path (or set of paths) whereby one may get to any such imagined Love and Joy ‘mountain top’. Though many have historically (often quite productively!) ‘dutifully’ focused on and committed themselves to following ‘leader’ promulgated guidelines and implementing ‘teacher’ provided instructions as well as devoted themselves to supporting group-movements stemming therefrom with Love and Joy related objectives in mind and heart, the iconoclastic truth is that thinking, feeling, believing and acting on such basis, if such modus operandi is strictly persisted in, is bound to end up being just as limiting of the experience and expression of Love and Joy as the ‘artistic’ experience and expression of a would‑be artist would be (limited) if s/he were to persist in thinking, feeling, believing and operating on the premise that there was a ‘better than all others’ kind of art and, in that case, just one ‘best’ method or ‘best set’ of methods wherewith and whereby s/he could (or, worse, should!) relate to and engage with creative possibilities in any topical regard.

My hope is that the time-space transcendental perspective and associated commentaries pertaining to Life’s worldly Flow presented here [in this treatise] will facilitate folks more wittingly deploying their Love and Joy capabilities in**creative conjunction with others around them, whatever their present physiosocial (including any school, line of teachers and/or group affiliation) context, by utilizing their own (unique!) soul’s awareness and motive constellation in furtherance of its (hence also their own) Love and Joy growth-venture aspirations in said context, whatever the parameters and aim‑focus of these may then and there be. Even so however, any and everyone’s psychospiritual process being so multi-factor determined and fluidly moment-to-moment variable as to only be approximately known, felt and related to (by way of ‘normal’ consciousness and cognition, that is), and what one thinks and feels in relation and response to any given stimulus at any given point pretty much just being a function of one’s history prior to one’s arrival at such point in any case, I more than anything else recommend that you (anyone!) primarily rely on the results of your earnestly praying, that is, of your intentionally desiring and attitudinally expecting, to be shown (by capital ‘M’ Mind) whatever, if anything, you may (presently) not be seeing which it might be better for you to see (‘better’ in terms of leading you in a ‘greater’ Love and Joy Life‑Flow direction), and that you also be sparked and spurred (by capital ‘S’ Spirit) to ‘do’ whatever would be best in that case (‘best’ by virtue of your consequently becoming as Love and Joy Flow-augmenting as you can possibly be in such vein).* The rationale here being (1) that the Reality, or Nature, of (all!) Being-n-Doing is such that every soul ultimately has to ‘find’ its own way to grow and continue to flourish, that is if it is to continue to grow and flourish; and (2) that mentally and emotionally tapping into the capital ‘P’ Power of your (it is ours, really!) supranodal capital ‘S’ Soul is your (anyone’s!) ‘best bet’ in this regard.

[Footnote**It is in relation to actualizing such maximum possible Love and Joy experience and expression that the advice, “Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you,” (Matthew 7:7) may be put to the most ‘profitable’ use because it is then focused on ‘activating’ the primary ‘program’ of Life Itself!]
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