why is it so?

I suppose that to think in terms of superior or inferior some kind of index is needed and that's always local. A jazz pianist cannot be better or worse than a classical pianist though gradations of accomplishment exist in both fields separately. Both are better than non-pianists is a world where piano playing is important.

To use your example, someone who can speak 10 languages may be more useful (and better suited) to the UN than someone who can speak only 2. But the speaker of 2 may be a better diplomat where the language is spoken.

With humanity itself it's difficult. Basically I'd believe that no human is better than another but from a gnostic viewpoint, I see us as spirits inhabiting these human bodies to do a stint here, and some of those spirits are so destructive that I regard their human manifestation as inferior. Gratuitously violent for example, cutting others' paths from under them before they've had a chance to develop a spiritual self etc etc - no need to dwell on more examples.

Others could claim that those malign entities have just as much right to be here and their stint is to destroy so that renewal can take place; that war is a human condition that has to be borne.

Hard to come to a conclusion.

[Swami Chihuahuananda]

Originally Posted by Cmt12

If you believe in spiritual development (which I do) then by definition you are going to see some people as more spiritually evolved than others. That doesn't mean that there is any judgment being passed - there shouldn't be.

To me,a big part of development is discovering the equality of beingness, the similarity of awareness , and the unity of consciouness (or something like that). Seeing that the comparisons or judgements are about temporary aspects , small differences compared to the vastness that we have in common. One of my all-time favorite ideas comes from Buddhism, where someone asks the Buddha what the difference between Buddha and normal people is. The Buddha replies "Buddha knows that there is no difference".
Now, I also see spiritual develpoment/evolution as a real thing in people , and at the same time the Spirit is unchanging , and that's what the Buddha saying means to me . Developing until you see the unchanging . Then , like I think you wrote about in another post , we just keep going . Changing and not-changing . Also, the veils seem so thick but they aren't really , and people can and do see through them. To me, it's a timing thing , and not a question of more advanced or less advanced , with one being better than the other , so like you just said , there should be no judgement.

I just read this by Lorelyn , and yeah, since there are so many perspectives and levels of human experience , it's hard to make a conclusive, and inclusive statement about it . But getting on a high horse and bossing people around.... nobody is well served with that sort of thing

Lorelyn sayeth:
With humanity itself it's difficult. Basically I'd believe that no human is better than another but from a gnostic viewpoint, I see us as spirits inhabiting these human bodies to do a stint here, and some of those spirits are so destructive that I regard their human manifestation as inferior. Gratuitously violent for example, cutting others' paths from under them before they've had a chance to develop a spiritual self etc etc - no need to dwell on more examples.

Others could claim that those malign entities have just as much right to be here and their stint is to destroy so that renewal can take place; that war is a human condition that has to be borne.

Hard to come to a conclusion.

[Cmt12]

^ Right, that's an important point that I left out. The larger context is that consciousness is fundamental and all is one. That's the first and most important truth.

[Jyotir]

Hi Colorful-Chameleon,

Generally in agreement with many previous. Just adding...

First, how do you know what others “believe” unless they come right out and say it, “I’m more spiritually advanced”, etc.? So I am assuming you are speaking of your own intuitive perception of the superior attitude being present in others‘ communications.

That issue aside, it is much like a poker game in which the genuinely more advanced players demonstrate their superiority by winning more hands, and the bluffer usually has a ‘tell’. While this isn’t a perfect metaphor by any means, it points to the difference between the theoretical and the practical. People either walk the walk (practical achievement) or it may be clear that they are representing through their actions a largely untested theory (just the talk).

Especially in a place like this or equivalents irl, there are people who think and feel that because ‘ I ’ (the ego-based ’personality’) have recently discovered something, a new paradigm, new experience for themselves and are very enthusiastic about it (usually with a resolute but often surface/theoretical ‘rejection’ of their old paradigm) - that it necessarily means (in a misapplied personality identification and comparison) that others in the prideful light of this great new discovery are doing the wrong thing, the lesser thing, the incorrect thing. ‘You don’t get it, but I now do. ‘They' are deficient, but I’ve seen THE light. Etc.

The ego becomes absorbed in this heroic and triumphal departure, in an irresistible personality comparison that invites the usual pride and condescension to come forward. But it’s a vacant and unfounded superiority because: 1) it’s largely nascent untested theory 2) Spirit is very much operating in and utilizing other ‘personalities’ appropriately for those others’ needs. So it’s just a mistake of ego identification, fairly common - and ironically (in terms of your OP) is one of the ‘tells’ that someone is an inexperienced novice! - the irresistible insistence that “my way is the only way - therefore yours is inferior…and I‘m gonna shove it in your face every chance I get…with attitude!!”

Again, ironically (or not) - the true superiority is the being’s superiority to the separative, comparative, divisive modes of ego-consciousness, thus establishing true ‘equality’ in the being and with ALL being.

In the realm of spirituality, as distinct from other human endeavors, spiritually ‘evolved’ or ‘advanced’ people - and there are those who truly are, and we know it the same way we intuit when someone doesn’t pass ’the smell test’ - means that certain principles of transformation, mostly involving ego - are being or have substantially been transformed and are therefore ‘objectively‘ embodied and therefore clearly demonstrable.

This is like when you read in Zen stories the monk saying, “I realized I wasn’t able to ‘show my Zen’ at every moment, so I went back to study with my master for another 15 years.”

Usually in spiritual practice within any tradition just some of the major indicators of advancement in practice are a demonstrated humility, tolerance, oneness, forbearance, harmlessness, sincerity, purity, peacefulness, etc. - but especially that it is demonstrated in practice, not theoretical as in boastful proclamations and personal narratives which are consistently* in direct contrast to actual behavior. *not talking about the ‘bad day’ everybody has

There is both a requisite equality and hierarchy in spiritual life which is present in reality as that self-same potential, and the higher the movement in the latter is usually accompanied by a simultaneous and considerable breadth in the former. In that case, the truly advanced aspirant simply plays the appropriate role according to the will of Spirit whether server or leader, or whatever - with the exact same attitude - it’s all equivalent in so-called advanced stages. This is called yogic equality, or 'samata'.

But certainly the ‘tells’ of untransformed ego are aggression, exclusion, impatience, excessive pride, insincerity, fanaticism, intolerance, etc. It may be a long list, and much of it within human interactions may seem like some form of superiority anyway. But that’s all it is.

Knowledge is the consciousness of unity with the One; and in relation with the many different beings and existences of the universe it must show itself by an equal oneness with all...for an equal and all-equalising spirit is that Oneness in the midst of the million differences and inequalities of the world; and equality of the spirit is the sole real equality…the moment the spirit takes cognisance of and deals with the multiplicities, personalities, differences, inequalities of the action of Nature, it has to effectuate these other signs of its free status by this one manifesting sign of equality.

- Sri Aurobindo, Essays on the Gita, Equality

~ J

[Molearner]

[quote=Colorful-Chameleon]
I am wondering why it seems that sometimes in spiritual communities there seem to be those who believe that they are more spiritually advanced or evolved than others?

Colorful-Chameleon,

As others have pointed out it is because it is a fact. Some are more advanced or evolved.

There is a simple saying: "The rich get richer while the poor get poorer." This is also true. The reason is simply this: Those who prosper have been good custodians or stewards of what they have. Those who suffer or lag have been poor custodians or stewards of what they have. The successful have passed a long series of tests.

The Bible points this out.......Matthew 13:12......"For to those who have, more will be given, and they will have an abundance; but from those who have nothing, even what they have will be taken away."

Now this may seem harsh but there is an equalizing caveat: To whom much is given, much is expected. Judgment of any kind is fair, we are judged in relation to what we possess. There is a burden of responsibility that accompanies the evolution to any higher level. Take comfort.....it all works out in the end.....you will not be treated unfairly.

[RedEmbers]

I am processing all the responses

We all have our strengths and our weaknesses, to learn how to use.

Some experiences we walk with ease, others find incredibly difficult. Some paths that I find difficult, others walk with ease.

To accept our own weaker points, and appreciate others strengths enables us to live harmoniously with each other.

Molearner, the view that you share is a view that has been present in many of the atrocities, such as slave trade, that human kind has committed over the past 2000 years.

[Molearner]

Originally Posted by Ivy

Molearner, the view that you share is a view that has been present in many of the atrocities, such as slave trade, that human kind has committed over the past 2000 years.

Ivy,

I don't know in which way you are referring. When I say "rich" on a spiritual forum I am not referring to material wealth even though this principle is apparent in material applications. Spiritual evolution or wealth is accumulated sequentially.....a step by step process. While it is possible for enlightenment to come in a blur via an extraordinary act of grace it is more normally a lifetime achievement......a result of much trial and error and the outcome of many years of dedication. It can be painful to admit that others have worked for what they have received.

[RedEmbers]

Thankyou for all of your responses

I unfortunately cannot reply with any conclusions here haha (oh, how I do so love conclusions).

I have though,.through this thread been able to reflect on the nature of my resistance to this topic and a few other bits and pieces... so thanks again.

[wstein]

Originally Posted by Colorful-Chameleon

I am wondering why it seems that sometimes in spiritual communities there seem to be those who believe that they are more spiritually advanced or evolved than others?

The number one reason is that partially spiritually advanced does not mean that the ego has been dealt with. Ego loves comparisons.

Another reason is that its obvious that some are more spiritually aware or experienced. This tends to correlate with being more advanced.

Seems pretty likely that not all are even spiritually advanced. Therefore in fact some ARE more spiritually advanced.

---------
The real issue here I suspect is that some make a big deal of being more advanced like that somehow makes them better. Declaring that one is 'better' is a sign that they are not very spiritually advanced.