There is no way out

Originally Posted by rsingh

There is no way out of my bondage in conditioning. Anything I think, feel, act or react is my conditioning plying itself. Anything I learn is adding to my conditioning. So either I am playing my conditioning or I am adding to my conditioning. I am never out of the bondage of my conditioning. Is there a way out of my conditioning?

Earlier in my life I had been pursuing material acquisitions to satisfy my ego. I wanted to acquire some qualifications, a social status, wealth, pleasures and experiences to reach a hypothetical state of joy and satisfaction assuming that such a state exists. Some how I realized that I couldn’t succeed in achieving satisfaction through material acquisitions. So I chose a path of spiritual development to reach the state of unending joy and satisfaction through acquisition of spiritual knowledge and carrying out some spiritual practices. Eventually I found that my spiritual development path is no different that material acquisition. Both have same goal of attaining satisfaction. It is the same ego in operation through a different path although spiritual path gave me in depth understanding of human mind that made my life easier but it lead to more dissatisfaction and hopelessness.

I read some spiritual books. I listened to few spiritual teachers. All this knowledge simply added further to my conditioning. I tried many spiritual practices including various types of meditations.I meditated repeating a mantra, focussing on ajna chakra, focussing on heart chakra, focussing on breathing and so on. Each type of mediation soon becomes a habit and it can be rendered as useless as soon as it becomes a habit. A habit is an unconscious process. Purpose of the mediation was to make me more conscious. So meditation did not help me much. I tried many other practices such as singing in the praise of God, yoga, pranayama presence and so on. All these practices turned to into habits eventually and then they were not helpful any more. Although I am more conscious due to these spiritual practices but at the same time I am more dissatisfied than before. My dissatisfaction kept growing as I searched more and more for satisfaction.

I failed at all my endeavours to gain satisfaction or to reach my ultimate goal to be aware of my awareness. So I have given up everything. I have given up my material pursuits as well as spiritual pursuits. I do not read spiritual books any more. I do not do any spiritual practice any more I do not listen to any spiritual teacher. I am fully surrendered to consciousness. I just accept whatever happens with me and around me. I do not want to change anything in me and around me. Everything is OK as it is. I just let my thoughts, feelings, actions and reactions happen, as they want to. I just observe myself without any goals or expecting any results. I do not know whether I am on right path or wrong path, as I do not follow any path.

I don't know, it sounds to me like your stuck in the whole perplexing, contrived and confusing world of new age shenanigans.

Forget about yourself, and start living for love to God and others. God, truth, love, is so far beyond our understanding that we can never hope to understand all that he/it represents.

People can call it conditioning or (God-forbid) a path, but I have found just trying to follow the teachings of Jesus as fantastic way to free myself from the bondage of ourselves and our limited understanding. Jesus talked about being born again. You don't want conditioning? Then let go of your conditioning, and let God teach you.

Self-actualization can only happen when you forget about yourself, and the best way to do that is to serve others in love. When we do that, it will be love and truth that will guide us.

It seems your very confused, and only becoming MORE confused, and IMO, it's because your dabbling in very confusing things. Keep it simple, my friend!

There is no way out of my bondage in conditioning. Anything I think, feel, act or react is my conditioning plying itself. Anything I learn is adding to my conditioning. So either I am playing my conditioning or I am adding to my conditioning. I am never out of the bondage of my conditioning.

Indeed.

In other words you have no choice. Whether you continue in "surrender" or go back to your spiritual practices is something you have no control over.

There is however a way out of your conditioning - and that is to re-condition yourself. But unfortunately your prior experience tells you that that doesn't work to well.

And only time will tell if the "surrender" approach works better for you.

rsingh, I think you will like the first part/section of this video:
Gangaji - The Moment of Choice

Originally posted by ciel_perdu
I don't know, it sounds to me like your stuck in the whole perplexing, contrived and confusing world of new age shenanigans.

Forget about yourself, and start living for love to God and others. God, truth, love, is so far beyond our understanding that we can never hope to understand all that he/it represents.

People can call it conditioning or (God-forbid) a path, but I have found just trying to follow the teachings of Jesus as fantastic way to free myself from the bondage of ourselves and our limited understanding. Jesus talked about being born again. You don't want conditioning? Then let go of your conditioning, and let God teach you.

Self-actualization can only happen when you forget about yourself, and the best way to do that is to serve others in love. When we do that, it will be love and truth that will guide us.

It seems your very confused, and only becoming MORE confused, and IMO, it's because your dabbling in very confusing things. Keep it simple, my friend!

Hi ciel_perdu

What is God for you? What do you expect from God? What God does? What are my beliefs about God?

I guess answers to these questions determines my relationship with God. I have been on a path. Path is a movement. Is God movement? If not then I have to get off the path to be with God. If yes then can I catch hold of God and how I can catch hold of the God. I will find many conflicting answers to these questions. Who do I believe to be true? I cannot believe anybody. I have to see the God myself to get the true answer.

Originally posted by Dr.Truth
And only time will tell if the "surrender" approach works better for you.

Hi Dr.Truth

It does not bother me whether surrender approach works or not. I do not expect any results. I have surrendered unconditionally. Surrender itself is end of seeking or end of my search.

[sound]

Originally Posted by rsingh

I am never out of the bondage of my conditioning.

Neither was I rsingh, while ever i believed my conditioning was bondage, and that i would remain entrapped and 'patterned' ... and I guess the belief that conditioning remains the most powerful directive of my experience ... for me, thinking about something, and believing are two different 'actions' ... even though too much thinking can seem to hold us back, it can also lead us into greater understandings if there is no element of worry attached to it ... thats what I have discovered anyway ... that is contemplation lol ... I think I have strayed off topic there lol ...

Hi rsingh,

what do you think is the spiritual way all about? What is "getting more conscious"? What did you do it all for? and for what purpose you gave it all up?

If I read your lines right it was about your 'satisfaction' - "My dissatisfaction kept growing as I searched more and more for satisfaction. " is it?

Well let me take a round here -

One way to put it is, that the spiritual way is freedom - detachment from Attachments and aversions. To be in this world to experience it as it is without getting attached to any thing. Taking it as it is and as it comes.
The path of yoga, for example, teaches the merge of Atman and Brahman (Yoga = Yoke = unite = put together). It is all about getting to understand, that we are not our Body, not out emotions, not our ego, not our desires. We are the Self (Atman). Practicing Yoga is about understanding and experiencing, what we really are. Realizing that, we realize, that our Self and Brahman (=the truth or universal consciousness, some will call it 'God') are the same. You are at the end of the path of Yoga, when you have experienced, that you are universal consciousness itself. Experiencing that, lets you stay in the state of bliss - the contentment of knowing, that you are everything and you do not need anything and all it is is Love...

You can put bliss as satisfaction, but there is a mere difference - bliss is divine state satisfaction is ego-state. Do you see what I am getting at? - Let me put it that straight - Brahman gives a damn about your satisfaction.

It is the nature of this world, that you get Joy and suffering alike. You get attached to joy and have aversion to pain and suffering. If you don't want to suffer any longer, you have to give up the attachment to joy too. Give up anything, what you have, what you think you are, your conditioning and yes, the search for satisfaction of any kind. Meditate on your heart chakra and find the light inside - this is the divine light, which will lead you to your Self. Dedicate your life to finding your Self and dedicate your life to your Self. The self doesn't need any satisfaction - it has everything already. Centering yourself in the Self and experiencing the world out of it is pure beauty and love = bliss - the absolute contentment and in fact all you ever have to do.

We are in this world, so we should do what we are here for - to let Brahman experience itself through us... Well in fact, if we say, that everything is Brahman - so Brahman is the one who makes the experience, the object to be experienced and the experience itself...

The way to the Self leads through selfless action (action made for God and not for the own satisfaction or joy) do what ever you do, not for the money (it is not bad to earn money, you need it to maintain your body in this world) not for pleasure or for fame. Just for God, for Atman for your Self. Dedicate all your life for It, because it is all that is... and this is it

Hey rsingh, when climbing a mountain with the desire and intent to stand on the summit,
A mountain with established paths and potentially infinite paths yet to be created by others, to choose from,
as each person makes their own way up...who gave up, the mountain, the paths or you?

Originally Posted by rsingh

There is no way out of my bondage in conditioning. Anything I think, feel, act or react is my conditioning plying itself. Anything I learn is adding to my conditioning. So either I am playing my conditioning or I am adding to my conditioning. I am never out of the bondage of my conditioning.

Here's your support base for giving up.

Is there a way out of my conditioning?

Here's you still looking.

Do you think giving up will help you find the answer to this question.
The answer being fully revealed on the summit of the mountain, within the experience of reaching the summit, not in the contemplation of reaching it, or in traveling up the mountain.

[Mr Interesting]

What I reckon is that spiritual stuff can often end up being backwards and inside out... that it's often not linear in responses, and because of this we expect results at specific times but it doesn't seem to work that way.

Plus, I'm sorry, but apart from the jumping off the cliff thing, it all takes rather a long time. It might be that we want it to be like sculpting marble with a hammer and chisel and be paring away the solid block to get to the inner artwork but I think it's more akin to having the artwork as a pile of chips that we slowly piece back together... having to deal not only with the pieces we need but also the dross we don't.

But then suddenly we realise we're almost there, this is the backwards inside out bit, that we were always there... almost!

[Papa Bear]

Hi rsingh, you follow what you feel, what`s for you will not pass you by.