Suicide

[Sisyphus]

Originally Posted by sea-dove

Could there ever be some good in a suicide?

No. People taken towards suicide arrive at a place where all hope and purpose for living has been lost. Experiencing complete helplessness and despair.

When a suicidal person arrives at this place can be difficult for family and friends as the suicidal person begin to experience a closing off, this can be frustrating for loved ones as any help they desperately try to offer seems to fall to closed ears.

I completely believe that god is a unconditional loving and forgiving god, (symbolically speaking) would take the person who had passed over from suicide and nurture them in spirit. As angels of comfort and healing surround loved ones struggling to cope facing a season of grief and bereavement with their passing.

[ajay00]

Originally Posted by Kiran65

My husband was terminally ill, and suffering at the end of his illness. He did kill himself near the end, mainly, I believe, to spare my son and I watching him deteriorate to a near vegetative state. So this is something, as I said, I have really looked into.

I am deeply sorry for your loss Kiran.

And I greatly appreciate your courage.

Your husbands death does not have any adverse karmic effect at all.

When one is suffering from an incurable disease, extreme senility or paralysis without chance of recovery, there is no karma created in self-termination.

I have explained this in a post...

http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/sh...5&postcount=84

In jainism, there is a practice called Sallekhana or Santhara, where the one similarly afflicted by extreme senility or incurable disease, and have a permanently weakened body unfit for work or spiritual development, fasts to death. No negative karma is created by this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sallekhana

Ajay:

I truly appreciate this. Thank you very much. I was not aware this existed in Jainism as well, very happy to hear it.

[linen53]

Well, I did commit suicide in a previous life. And there was no deep scars on my soul and no added karma. I was disappointed in myself because my reason for ending my life was life-changing yes, but not the end of the world. I was supposed to get raped in that lifetime and learn from the experience.

In this lifetime I heaped more trauma on myself so I could not side-step, yet again, my lessons I had to learn.

The following is in my humble opinion.

Kiran brings up a bunch of good, good information. I've heard so many times that it is wrong to throw away a life (body) incarnate which is total malarkey. There is no shaking of the head or tsk-tsking from the head honcho.

See, time does not exist outside of our 3D world. "God" has all the time in the Universe and so do we, to learn our lessons and become the pure spirits we are destined to be. There are no mistakes. There are no accidents. This is not a test and if we don't pass we will be obliterated. We are in perfect time with "God's" plan. And we will complete our evolution. "God" does not make mistakes. And we are a chip off the old block so we don't make mistakes (even though it looks like it while here in the 3D).

No, I don't want to repeat a suicide for the reasons I did my last one. Now a terminal illness is a different matter. One that will be filled with pain and suffering? What is the point? It's not like my rape where I could actually get over it and heal and move on. Terminal illness means the end of the tunnel. The end is near. And there are no more detours.

And now let me speak of depression. At this stage of my life, I am blessed with a good and happy life. But in my past, I have been wracked with deep encompassing depression that swallowed me whole while I went through some very trying times. And depression is a mental illness. I do not condemn those who are horribly depressed and see no way out. I am not here to judge them.

So you see, having commit suicide in a past life doesn't mean I am against it in this life. I think we are all individuals and as such each situation is different. And who is to say the suicide was not a plan in that person's life-plan. Eh?

Originally Posted by linen53

Well, I did commit suicide in a previous life. And there was no deep scars on my soul and no added karma. I was disappointed in myself because my reason for ending my life was life-changing yes, but not the end of the world. I was supposed to get raped in that lifetime and learn from the experience.

In this lifetime I heaped more trauma on myself so I could not side-step, yet again, my lessons I had to learn.

The following is in my humble opinion.

Kiran brings up a bunch of good, good information. I've heard so many times that it is wrong to throw away a life (body) incarnate which is total malarkey. There is no shaking of the head or tsk-tsking from the head honcho.

See, time does not exist outside of our 3D world. "God" has all the time in the Universe and so do we, to learn our lessons and become the pure spirits we are destined to be. There are no mistakes. There are no accidents. This is not a test and if we don't pass we will be obliterated. We are in perfect time with "God's" plan. And we will complete our evolution. "God" does not make mistakes. And we are a chip off the old block so we don't make mistakes (even though it looks like it while here in the 3D).

No, I don't want to repeat a suicide for the reasons I did my last one. Now a terminal illness is a different matter. One that will be filled with pain and suffering? What is the point? It's not like my rape where I could actually get over it and heal and move on. Terminal illness means the end of the tunnel. The end is near. And there are no more detours.

And now let me speak of depression. At this stage of my life, I am blessed with a good and happy life. But in my past, I have been wracked with deep encompassing depression that swallowed me whole while I went through some very trying times. And depression is a mental illness. I do not condemn those who are horribly depressed and see no way out. I am not here to judge them.

So you see, having commit suicide in a past life doesn't mean I am against it in this life. I think we are all individuals and as such each situation is different. And who is to say the suicide was not a plan in that person's life-plan. Eh?

Linen, You are wise beyond your years (or lives).

I agree with all that you have said. Especially the part about depression/mental illness. The saddest/most troublesome thing to me about this thread has been the thought of someone who is depressed or mentally ill, or having lost someone to suicide because of one of those reasons, or any reason, coming across this, and having gone through the pain I did when I first found it. I know why my husband killed himself, I know his soul won't suffer because of it, but it has still horribly depressed and pained me ever since I first saw this, and I cannot imagine how someone who has lost someone due to a different situation would feel. Dealing with the suicide, or any death, of a loved one is bad enough, without anything else being heaped on top of it.

[Internal Queries]

well, we can each have our opinions, speculate as we please in accordance w/ our culturally biased perception lens, assert this and that about what happens to those who opt out w/o social approval, but no one really knows. i speculate that death, like life, is entirely personal and different for everyone.

sometimes i wonder if the rules against self determined exit were impressed upon the masses by exploitative powers so to keep suffering underclasses enslaved by the fear of afterlife consequences. who would labor to the last feeble spasm of their over strained muscle to build monuments to the wealthy and powerful if some dire fate didn't await them should they seek to escape their torturous life via self initiated death?

"For who would bear the whips and scorns of time,
The oppressor’s wrong, the proud man’s contumely,
The pangs of despised love, the law’s delay,
The insolence of office and the spurns
That patient merit of the unworthy takes,
When he himself might his quietus make
With a bare bodkin? who would fardels bear,
To grunt and sweat under a weary life,
But that the dread of something after death,
The undiscover’d country from whose bourn
No traveller returns, puzzles the will
And makes us rather bear those ills we have
Than fly to others that we know not of?" Hamlet

[sea-dove]

Originally Posted by ajay00

In jainism, there is a practice called Sallekhana or Santhara, where the one similarly afflicted by extreme senility or incurable disease, and have a permanently weakened body unfit for work or spiritual development, fasts to death. No negative karma is created by this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sallekhana

Some of the yogis too have ways to hasten a physical death. I know face a certain way (east???) and do a certain type of meditation which if overly done hastens departure from this earth (one of my teachers was once telling me about this). I don't think that is seen as a going spiritual backwards way of things (well at least to that group of Yogis). So obviously hastening a death at least in some situations isn't taboo in all cultures. Unfortunately with the cultures this is taboo in, this whole subject is a very difficult one.

I don't know if its the ones who are into Jainism which got mentioned in ajay's post or what but I many years ago I was reading about a culture with the same practice, where when they wanted to live they would just sit and meditate (sometimes in a street) and just stop all food and water till they passed away. The ones who did this were very highly respected while this was all going on and seen as having great inner strength. (so seen in the complete opposite way to what our society would see that).

[sea-dove]

Originally Posted by Kiran65

Linen, You are wise beyond your years (or lives).

I agree with all that you have said. Especially the part about depression/mental illness. The saddest/most troublesome thing to me about this thread has been the thought of someone who is depressed or mentally ill, or having lost someone to suicide because of one of those reasons, or any reason, coming across this, and having gone through the pain I did when I first found it. I know why my husband killed himself, I know his soul won't suffer because of it, but it has still horribly depressed and pained me ever since I first saw this, and I cannot imagine how someone who has lost someone due to a different situation would feel. Dealing with the suicide, or any death, of a loved one is bad enough, without anything else being heaped on top of it.

I'm sorry this thread has pained you obviously you have still inner healing still to go through over this subject. Unfortunately not talking about this subject doesn't help people either.. it probably taboos this topic further where there should be no shame etc around it. Any subject around death is hard.

People die of cancer every day but things like cancer still gets talked about and I don't think no one should feel guilty talking about cancer.. suicide isn't shameful, I can understand someone who's lost someone not liking this subject but I don't understand why it should be a taboo subject in the way this thread is discussing.. I hope this thread could be helpful to someone.. I myself do know people who suicided, though I must admit I wasn't very close to them. One of my neighbours who lived opposite me did 6? years ago and others I've known have (I have a serious illness and some have around this and being severely disabled). Someone I knew suicided only about 5 weeks ago, he was a great guy, a funny guy at the main forum I hang out in for my illness who liked to make people laugh and I cried at hearing he was gone (and since then someone else did but I didn't know the other though many at the forum did).

So this topic and its spiritual implications is a very relevant one to me in several ways.

I brought this topic up as I'm trying to seriously understand this subject more with its deeper spiritual implications and I hope this thread isn't making light of it in anyway. I really appreciated you shared. (would it be a good idea not to read the posts in this thread if this topic is too painful??)
.......

Though many people are going by their religious views of it, I'm hoping that there are some seeds of inner knowing also coming out through this discussion.... some deeper truths. Thanks to those who shared their past lives on this and how they feel about it and this topic now, maybe we have a lot to learn a lot by those experiences.

I hope this thread can stay open though Im sorry it has distressed someone.

[sea-dove]

Originally Posted by Internal Queries

well, we can each have our opinions, speculate as we please in accordance w/ our culturally biased perception lens, assert this and that about what happens to those who opt out w/o social approval, but no one really knows.

Nods, cultures certainly affect things a lot but many spiritual people actually end up going against a lot of the cultural stuff due to their own inner knowings which some times clash with cultures and what they have been taught. (I know I did, Im from a highly Christian family but couldn't resonate to being that religion as it didn't feel "innerly" right to me).

If we are going to find deeper answers it would be at a site such as this where many people may be more connected to their souls to a point where the cultures matter less. I tend to think that many of these at a place like this will have more extensive views on things. We can also loose our current societies cultural view when we remember past lives.

Some may well "know" .. The big question is who really knows and who doesn't if we are trying to find out the deeper truth lol. I'm sure some here must have the right answer.

[UniversalLove83]

I had a psychic years ago tell me I killed myself in a past lifetime due to a failed marriage and strangely enough I completely believed him because of how I was with relationships... And that was horrible. I had a great childhood and no reason to harbour such great resentment towards men, yet I did. I also battled major depression and a mood disorder from a very young age... However, even therapists said I had a great insight to my own emotions which they've never seen with someone with my apparent "disorder". After dealing with things on a deeper level as I got older... All these "symptoms" seemed to slowly disappear one by one. Hense, the reason I strongly believe mental and emotional "disorders" are a spiritual issue... Not mental one. But ya, I genuinely believe (from personal experience) that you can't commit suicide and expect all your problems to disappear... They'll come back ten fold upon reincarnation :-)