overcoming Duality

[MChang]

Originally Posted by Unseeking Seeker

***

You are right, others too are right!

Stripping away of layers ... layers of negativity ... meaning thereby, habits in the egoic self serving domain which bind and contract our consciousness is definitely the way ... if stepped up from intellectualism and applied onto ourselves in thought, word & deed day after day until it becomes our revised reflex response and coupled with quiet thought-rested meditation.

Even the slightest consciousness shift brings about the greatest healing & inner transformation.

In fact, continuous contemplative consciousness correction is the ‘analytical thought’ aspect of thought that helps erase negativity, while ‘intuitive-thought’ in as cognising the totality instantly without any effort, there being no thinker or doer, in the usually believed manner, is the meditative aspect.

***

The layers I speak of are are past life issues we carry with us lifetime to lifetime that are unresolved. I believe and it has been my experience, that we have so much of this accumulated stuff between us and the Source it is difficult to know it is there much less what the right path/choice is for us.

The Mao shan sect of Taoism refers to it as inherited built. What we bring with us into each lifetime.

Thanks.

Brian

[MChang]

Originally Posted by Moondance

Hello Brian

Thanks for sharing. What you write here is interesting but has little to do with nonduality.

We don’t reach One - there is ONLY One. The issue is with the mistaken perception of separation. There’s nothing to remove or reach or achieve… only to see.

There’s no animal soul and spirit soul, no unresolved stuff over lifetimes, no personal salvation, no Axis Mundi…

There is only the being of what is… Already the case before you lift a finger.

My study and experience teaches me differently.

Ever had this experience described here?

"Still if you practice observation with a mind attached to projected reality, you will never be aware of bad feelings in yourself. Only when your mind is utterly detached from projected reality can you observe the phenomenal world and truly understand right and wrong. In fact, you are just like a sobered man. Freshly awakened, he can now see the evil he did while he was drunk, deeds of which he was completely unconscious before." Life of Sima Chengzhen. Sima Chengzhen (AD 647-735) was a renowned Taoist priest of the Tang Dynasty.

Kohn, Livia. The Taoist Experience: An Anthology. State University of New York, 1993. P. 241.[/i]

[Moondance]

Originally Posted by MChang

My study and experience teaches me differently.

Ever had this experience described here?

"Still if you practice observation with a mind attached to projected reality, you will never be aware of bad feelings in yourself. Only when your mind is utterly detached from projected reality can you observe the phenomenal world and truly understand right and wrong. In fact, you are just like a sobered man. Freshly awakened, he can now see the evil he did while he was drunk, deeds of which he was completely unconscious before." Life of Sima Chengzhen. Sima Chengzhen (AD 647-735) was a renowned Taoist priest of the Tang Dynasty.

Kohn, Livia. The Taoist Experience: An Anthology. State University of New York, 1993. P. 241.[/i]

Yes, I agree, your study and experience teaches you differently.

Nothing wrong with that in itself Brian, but it has little to do with nonduality.

Nonduality is not about becoming or resolving stuff over lifetimes, it’s about the waking up from a mistaken perception.

[MChang]

Originally Posted by Moondance

Yes, I agree, your study and experience teaches you differently.

Nothing wrong with that in itself Brian, but it has little to do with nonduality.

Nonduality is not about becoming or resolving stuff over lifetimes, it’s about the waking up from a mistaken perception.

In spirituality, nondualism, also called non-duality, means "not two" or "one undivided without a second". Nondualism primarily refers to a mature state of consciousness, in which the dichotomy of I-other is "transcended", and awareness is described as "centerless" and "without dichotomies".

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by MChang

I see the stripping away of the accumulated layers as a necessary path we take on our way back to the origin. If others are in a place in their journey, where they a fully conscious of their thoughts, and where there are no brain center human thought imprinting on their being; then amen. I don't seem to be so fortunate, I am still stuck with my monkey mind and identifying thoughts and the source of those thoughts in any given moment.

I agree completely with your statement "I see the stripping away of the accumulated layers as a necessary path we take on our way back to the origin." That is exactly how I have approached life after many circuitous detours.

As you implied, being "stuck with my monkey mind" is definitely an obstacle and one with which I struggled for many years. There are various techniques from different traditions with which to still the "monkey mind", and my sense is that you are conversant with at least some of those techniques. Once there is a breakthrough and one experiences even a glimpse of the pure thought-free awareness, it is so peaceful that one does not want to disturb it with mundane "monkey mind" thoughts and that facilitates remaining in that state for longer and longer periods of time. One "knows without thinking".

In that "not knowing state" (alternatively "knowing without thinking"), one realizes that ... somehow ... one is tapping into a higher consciousness that guides one unerringly in the best interests of the Totality in a way that defies simplistic intellectual logic. One is thus drawn to the stillness and peace more and more continuously especially since one realizes that, when one surrenders completely to that which lies beyond the "monkey mind", one flows with life in an unbelievable manner as the optimal course of action in the best interests of all just manifests quite naturally. My sense is that this is what is meant by "back to the origin" as one operates quite naturally more and more continuously under that unerring guidance of what many call the "One".

I loved reading your posts. Like yourself, I have practiced under sages from the various traditions, including Taoism, and they all ultimately pointed me in the same direction, which as you duly noted: "I see the stripping away of the accumulated layers as a necessary path we take on our way back to the origin."

P.S. One can still activate the instrument called the mind when one chooses so that one can function as an actor on the stage of life and come out to "play" (so to speak). However, one never loses the metaphorical Ariadne's thread (Greek myth on Theseus an the Minotaur) that connects "back to the origin" from whence we all emerged and to which we all return.

[Moondance]

Originally Posted by MChang

In spirituality, nondualism, also called non-duality, means "not two" or "one undivided without a second". Nondualism primarily refers to a mature state of consciousness, in which the dichotomy of I-other is "transcended", and awareness is described as "centerless" and "without dichotomies".

Thanks for the quote Brian. I see that this one is from the intro to the Wikipedia entry. And yes, “not two” or “One undivided” is a fine place to start. But let’s be clear, this is not about an intellectual understanding or more spiritual information, it's (for want of a phrase) a felt-sense realisation or shift in perception - a present-actuality gnosis/insight. It’s about the seeing-through of the beliefs and narratives that uphold the delusion of separation (of which the spiritual ones are often the most persistent.)

[MChang]

Originally Posted by Moondance

Thanks for the quote Brian. I see that this one is from the intro to the Wikipedia entry. And yes, “not two” or “One undivided” is a fine place to start. But let’s be clear, this is not about an intellectual understanding or more spiritual information, it's (for want of a phrase) a felt-sense realisation or shift in perception - a present-actuality gnosis/insight. It’s about the seeing-through of the beliefs and narratives that uphold the delusion of separation (of which the spiritual ones are often the most persistent.)

I agree it is about experience. Intellectual knowledge is necessary, but accomplishes nothing. The real work back is visceral and must be felt and experienced via the heart center that is the source of our connection with the spiritual phenomenal world around us. In this human body we are three, Heaven, Earth, Man, Father, Son, Holy Ghost. I completely agree we are already something and we only have to remember what that is, but these layered experiences are in the way. It would be wonderful if I was evolved enough to remember with a thought, but for me personally, there was too much **** in the way I had accumulated over lifetimes. Identifying, healing, and removing these experiences clears the connection I already have and makes it stronger so I can sense what is already there. At the end, and for some moments in the journey I am able to sense the phenomenal world from the whole me, the united three parts of me in balance.

Thanks.

Brian

[Moondance]

Originally Posted by MChang

I agree it is about experience. Intellectual knowledge is necessary, but accomplishes nothing. The real work back is visceral and must be felt and experienced via the heart center that is the source of our connection with the spiritual phenomenal world around us. In this human body we are three, Heaven, Earth, Man, Father, Son, Holy Ghost. I completely agree we are already something and we only have to remember what that is, but these layered experiences are in the way. It would be wonderful if I was evolved enough to remember with a thought, but for me personally, there was too much **** in the way I had accumulated over lifetimes. Identifying, healing, and removing these experiences clears the connection I already have and makes it stronger so I can sense what is already there. At the end, and for some moments in the journey I am able to sense the phenomenal world from the whole me, the united three parts of me in balance.

Thanks.

Brian

Okay Brian. I don’t resonate with some of the terminology here and I don’t share the belief in any sort of individuated continuity over lifetimes but I appreciate that this is how you see it - thanks for sharing.

[MChang]

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

I agree completely with your statement "I see the stripping away of the accumulated layers as a necessary path we take on our way back to the origin." That is exactly how I have approached life after many circuitous detours.

As you implied, being "stuck with my monkey mind" is definitely an obstacle and one with which I struggled for many years. There are various techniques from different traditions with which to still the "monkey mind", and my sense is that you are conversant with at least some of those techniques. Once there is a breakthrough and one experiences even a glimpse of the pure thought-free awareness, it is so peaceful that one does not want to disturb it with mundane "monkey mind" thoughts and that facilitates remaining in that state for longer and longer periods of time. One "knows without thinking".

In that "not knowing state" (alternatively "knowing without thinking"), one realizes that ... somehow ... one is tapping into a higher consciousness that guides one unerringly in the best interests of the Totality in a way that defies simplistic intellectual logic. One is thus drawn to the stillness and peace more and more continuously especially since one realizes that, when one surrenders completely to that which lies beyond the "monkey mind", one flows with life in an unbelievable manner as the optimal course of action in the best interests of all just manifests quite naturally. My sense is that this is what is meant by "back to the origin" as one operates quite naturally more and more continuously under that unerring guidance of what many call the "One".

I loved reading your posts. Like yourself, I have practiced under sages from the various traditions, including Taoism, and they all ultimately pointed me in the same direction, which as you duly noted: "I see the stripping away of the accumulated layers as a necessary path we take on our way back to the origin."

P.S. One can still activate the instrument called the mind when one chooses so that one can function as an actor on the stage of life and come out to "play" (so to speak). However, one never loses the metaphorical Ariadne's thread (Greek myth on Theseus an the Minotaur) that connects "back to the origin" from whence we all emerged and to which we all return.

Very nice. Thanks for taking time. Spoken like a person withe the experience to go with the intellectual understanding of what "is going on" in the phenomenal world.

More at

https://www.thethreeandtheone.com/about

Brian

[MChang]

Originally Posted by Moondance

Okay Brian. I don’t resonate with some of the terminology here and I don’t share the belief in any sort of individuated continuity over lifetimes but I appreciate that this is how you see it - thanks for sharing.

Thanks.

Brian.