Is belief in God a requirement for Salvation?

[Amilius777]

Nice response Miss Hepburn! Very true. Sin is such a bad word these days. I can understand karma and grace as the two forces of God's law. But sin and how they works is awful. The Catholic Church has given an essence to sin. And it makes no sense.

Salvation just means- oneness with God. That is the redemption, the realization. Realization/Redemption are one and the same. They require effort, discipline, devotion, right living and right action. The baptism that John the Baptist spoke of was turning away from the outward world and turning inward to God. That is the baptism by Fire. Baptism is Bhakti- absolute devotion and surrender to the love of God.

There is karma. Yes. How else can you interrupt such things in the Bible as the reason for the blind man? The reason why it said- "Jesus took on the sins of many". Or "Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world". Get rid of "sin" and put in "error" or "missing the mark" - Jesus took on the errors of many. Lamb of God take away the error, the missed mark of the world. Clearly error, our errors, or the very error of the world is our Ignorance which creates all other errors which creates karmic compulsion. Jesus washed away the sin of all sins "ignorance" on the cross and accepting his fate to uplift his people from their karma. And succeeded and died. And in return was given a resurrected body. A kingdom in Heaven. And oneness with God completely.

[mickiel]

Originally Posted by Amilius777

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Salvation just means- oneness with God. That is the redemption, the realization. Realization/Redemption are one and the same. They require effort, discipline, devotion, right living and right action. The baptism that John the Baptist spoke of was turning away from the outward world and turning inward to God. That is the baptism by Fire. Baptism is Bhakti- absolute devotion and surrender to the love of God.

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In my view, Salvation requires absolutely nothing from the human, it is the gift of God. It requires no effort, no discipline, no devotion to God, and it does not matter how you live. And I think such grace as this, is truly amazing. The only requirement for Salvation that I have ever found in my research, is the death of Christ. Jesus had to die, or Salvation couldnot have been free.

And I want to go into the unique ramifications of Jesus death sacrifice. Its because of what Jesus did, that Salvation has absolutely no requirements whatsoever. All the conditions that religion have placed on Salvation, are simply false. Every last one of them are false.

Originally Posted by psychoslice

Well, I think its a good onion, but no way will I smell your butt lol.

to be fair it is a good union cause it will out of fear alone keep people from straying from the Christian religion.

[tainamom]

Originally Posted by mickiel

Many religions stress belief in God as a requirement for Salvation, which I disagree with. They claim if we do not believe in God, well then I quess God disqualifys us from his Salvation. Which would mean, in their interpitation, that God is " After belief in humans." And I certainly disagree with that, because in my view, God is not trying to convince humans even of his simple existence. He has not revealed himself to humanity as a whole; he has not shown himself to humans, and he has the power to open all human minds to him " instantly", he has not done that. IF he did any of those things, I would say he is after belief from humans. He has done none of these.

In my view, God is not concerned with human belief, it really does not matter to him what humans believe. Why would a being as powerful as God must be, concern himself with wether humans believe in him or not? Even worse, punish them for " Not believing in him?' As if he is some kind of ego-driven being who must be worshipped.

And I wanted to examine this most unusual belief about God.

For starters, what is YOUR definition of God? For me, God is the Ultimate Source of Pure, Unconditional Love and Light. It has no gender. It is a powerful energy that I can connect with through my heart because in my heart is where a spark of Love is found. My heart is the only place in my body that feels love. So that's just a partial definition of the God I know. God, or LOVE, has always been here and once a person uses their hearts properly, they will know for sure whether it's true or not. The love from the Creator never forces us to believe or acknowledge him because then it's not called Pure, Unconditional Love, it's called forcing your will upon another. One has to want to seek the love within their hearts to connect to the Love Above.

This is my experience, everyone's experience will vary.

[mickiel]

Originally Posted by tainamom

For starters, what is YOUR definition of God? For me, God is the Ultimate Source of Pure, Unconditional Love and Light. It has no gender. It is a powerful energy that I can connect with through my heart because in my heart is where a spark of Love is found.This is my experience, everyone's experience will vary.

Well I am not sure what you are about to " Start", but I will give my definition of God as requested; God is an individual Being, the first being to exist. He has a personality, he has a form and shape; He has eyes and a mouth, and he has hands, so he is not " Energy." However, I believe all energy came from him , I would agree with that. God is a Spirit, and the most powerful Spirit. He has likes and dislikes, he is a supreme ruler; and all things must submit to him, there are no choices. God is the fabric of existence, and he is eternity itself! God is the past, present and future of all of humanity, and he exist in all of those timeframes, at the same time.

God is responsible for all things, which is why we need not fear our destiny, when this world gets far worse than it is.

God is much more; but I hope this is sufficent to answer your question.

[mickiel]

Originally Posted by ciel_perdu

Mickiel wrote:


There seems to be a LOT of certainty in your post. On what have you based your conclusions?

If you would permit me to respond to your assertions:

He has not revealed himself to humanity as a whole; he has not shown himself to humans

How do you know this? .

I base my conclusions on the Bible, and my understanding of it. As far as how I know God has not shown himself to humans; again the bible, which states that no human can see God and live through the experience. And Jesus said when he left earth, that he willnot be seen again until he returns with his Father, and then EVERY eye will see him and God.

[mickiel]

[quote=mattie]
If God hasn’t revealed himself to humans then how do you know what God’s intent is?

QUOTE]

Again, its in the bible for anyone to read. I know Gods intent because I have read it. Its no secret; its right there in the bible.

[tainamom]

Originally Posted by mickiel

Well I am not sure what you are about to " Start", but I will give my definition of God as requested; God is an individual Being, the first being to exist. He has a personality, he has a form and shape; He has eyes and a mouth, and he has hands, so he is not " Energy." However, I believe all energy came from him , I would agree with that. God is a Spirit, and the most powerful Spirit. He has likes and dislikes, he is a supreme ruler; and all things must submit to him, there are no choices. God is the fabric of existence, and he is eternity itself! God is the past, present and future of all of humanity, and he exist in all of those timeframes, at the same time.

God is responsible for all things, which is why we need not fear our destiny, when this world gets far worse than it is.

God is much more; but I hope this is sufficent to answer your question.

This passage sort of sums up a bit of my experience, but for me, it's the light from the Creator that purifies me.


1 John 1:5-7 NIV
5 This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. 6 If we claim to have fellowship with him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live out the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all[b] sin.


This seems a bit OT, but hang in with me for a moment as I recently thought of something regarding my upbringing. In the Catholic Church, we do the sign of the cross: The Father (forehead), the Son (heart), and the Holy Spirit (right shoulder to left shoulder.) I've come to the conclusion that the Father is above; The Son is the spark of love that's made in his image located in our hearts; and in between the father (above) and son (below) flows the Love aka - Holy Spirit. When I went to a Catholic Healing Mass about 4 years ago, they said that the Holy Spirit will descend down upon us when we are touched. I felt this Love coming down through my head and into my heart. Something from their teaching is finally making some sense to me and matching with my experience and understanding.


Anyway, I agree that God is in control. hehehe. And all along I thought I was in control of me. What a fool I've been. LOL. Take care.

Edit: Sorry, I think I forgot to emphasize, this is *my* experience. That's why I can't agree on the Creator having any form at all. So for now, I'll just agree to disagree, but it is also written in the Bible to be read from the p.o.v. of someone else's experience too. I generally don't agree with everything in the Bible, but it has a lot of good lessons to learn from. I only read half and tried to re-start reading it, but I just can't go through with it for now.

[mickiel]

Originally Posted by tainamom

This passage sort of sums up a bit of my experience, but for me, it's the light from the Creator that purifies me.


1.

Well I myself have not been purified, and I do not know God personally. Yet I wish you well on your journey.

[tainamom]

Originally Posted by mickiel

Well I myself have not been purified, and I do not know God personally. Yet I wish you well on your journey.

Yeah. Me too. I'm not purified completely, but every little bit helps to get me there.