Is This Reality Perfect?

[lemex]

Originally Posted by WabiSabi

It seems to me that a lot of religious or "spiritual" people that I have talked to firmly believe that this reality is imperfect, that it is not the way that it should be, and that things need to change in order for there to be some sort of harmony or resolution to "God's Plan". Most of these people believe that a majority of the population are "asleep" to Truth, and that by "waking up" the world will become a better place.

However, numerous teachings as well as my own experiences lead me to believe that this reality is perfectly patterned, and that all is as it should be. That nothing need be achieved, and that the world is already perfect. That there is already balance and harmony within that which is Absolute. That all action to make the world a better place is simply changes in a pattern that has always been and will always be complete.

I agree with what you feel and predict here and what you've been told is correct. When you say it is already perfect that perfection will not be seen by us. It will take many eons to reach the point to see because reality covers a period of time that may be in a span of a thousand years. It certainly will change for the better. I think we all can play a part in that today like an atom.

But ever perfect. Forces seem to be out there that challenge that. The earth will probably see changes cosmically such that will affect the earth a few more times that will test us to reach such perfection.

Reality is perfect. The people creating it are as well, the only tickle is that they all don't know it.

[davidsun]

What is is what IS.

One may (and so some do) image-in-natively think and feel and so see and believe It to be 'beautiful', 'wonderful', 'amazing', 'perfect', etc., etc., etc. and such characterizations 'truly' 'make sense' to them.

One may also (and so some do) image-in-natively think and feel and so see and believe It to be 'ugly', 'boring', 'tedious', 'imperfect', etc., etc., etc. and such characterizations 'truly' 'make sense' to them.

One may also 'not give a damn' one way or other.

You get my drift? The OP assertion or question, however one wishes to characterize, just sets off an outer 'wild goose' chase which just has people run-talking at all over the place in 'scattered' fashion.

The truth is what one either 'constructs' for himself or herself or chooses from what other have made. All thoughts are the constructs of inner intelligence, consciousness, whatever you wish to call it, not reflective of any kind of outer 'reality'.

Quote from a Vedic source:

"Not that which the eye can see, but that whereby the eye can see: know that to be Brahman the eternal, and not what people here adore;
Not that which the ear can hear, but that whereby the ear can hear: know that to be Brahman the eternal, and not what people here adore;
Not that which speech can illuminate, but that by which speech can be illuminated: know that to be Brahman the eternal, and not what people here adore;
Not that which the mind can think, but that whereby the mind can think: know that to be Brahman the eternal, and not what people here adore."

Heads up! THAT is what most really IS! Some think, feel and believe THAT is what 'creates' everything 'out there' 'in' existence. Using 'perfect' or 'imperfect' to characterize THAT completely misses 'the point' (what is finger-pointed to here), IMO.

[davidsun]

IMO, so I suggest, it would be much more productive if you more intimately shared with why and how you relate to 'reality', WabiSabi,describing in greater, more personal detail what you experience as 'reality', and if you then invited others to likewise share in personal detail how they relate to the 'subject' (it sure ain't an 'object'! ).

Instead of people then just going off of on tangents dictated by what their notions of what 'perfection' or 'imperfection' means, we could all enjoy communing with one another around a 'commonly' shared focus.

Intimacy <=> sharing.

I for one would enjoy hearing more about what you 'see' and 'experience' as 'reality' since you strike me as being quite intelligently engaged with the subject. Maybe, if and as others join in doing so as well, the group intimate-cy would become ing

[WabiSabi]

Originally Posted by davidsun

IMO, so I suggest, it would be much more productive if you more intimately shared with why and how you relate to 'reality', WabiSabi,describing in greater, more personal detail what you experience as 'reality', and if you then invited others to likewise share in personal detail how they relate to the 'subject' (it sure ain't an 'object'! ).

Instead of people then just going off of on tangents dictated by what their notions of what 'perfection' or 'imperfection' means, we could all enjoy communing with one another around a 'commonly' shared focus.

Intimacy <=> sharing.

I for one would enjoy hearing more about what you 'see' and 'experience' as 'reality' since you strike me as being quite intelligently engaged with the subject. Maybe, if and as others join in doing so as well, the group intimate-cy would become ing

First off, thank you all for your replies. I appreciate it. And davidsun, I will take you up on your offer.

My most fundamental belief is that God, and in turn this reality, is absolutely infinite in the grandest and most extreme possible iteration of such a concept. And the purpose of this absolutely infinite expanse is experience. God seeks to experience its own infinite splendor, and we are a part of that desire in action.

I believe that there are an infinite number of experiences, and each one of these experiences has happened, is happening, and will continue to happen for eternity. This infinity reality, simply by existing as the Absolute, the pinnacle of all extremes, beyond any concepts, is inherently complete. It HAS to be complete, for it is Absolute and nothing can exist outside or separate from it. And anything that DOES exist outside of this infinite reality still exists within it. Such is its nature.

This completeness or wholeness is what I mean when I say perfect. It is infinite, and nothing can tarnish it. And a perfect whole cannot be comprised of imperfect parts. A part may seem imperfect, and yet such a part unwittingly fills its role perfectly.

This infinite reality is the background against which all experience plays. It is the spacious awareness within which all happenings occur. Form must exist within space, and the finite must exist within the infinite.

I believe that any experience that can be conceived of is capable of being experienced. Not only is it capable of it, it MUST be experienced and IS being experienced.

[Busby]

Reality is perfect inasmuch as the word 'perfect' cannot be defined. The world is as it is - it's at that stage where it has to be or is simply because all that has ever happened has led to this 'now'.

Reality flows and we flow with it.

How could it possibly be different?

[WabiSabi]

Originally Posted by Busby

Reality is perfect inasmuch as the word 'perfect' cannot be defined. The world is as it is - it's at that stage where it has to be or is simply because all that has ever happened has led to this 'now'.

Reality flows and we flow with it.

How could it possibly be different?

I agree, but 'perfect' happens to be the only word that comes to mind when I try and describe the wholeness of the reality I see.

[Busby]

Originally Posted by WabiSabi

I agree, but 'perfect' happens to be the only word that comes to mind when I try and describe the wholeness of the reality I see.

Maybe 'complete' would be the better word. A completeness which flows of course.

Perfect is a judgement. It needs some kind of benchmark to compare against.

My reality isn't perfect because I like to feel comfortable in easy clothing and it's so darned cold, I can't. The heating bill would be far too expensive so, were it not for having to earn a living I'd go hibernate in my parents' home (or buzz off to the Caribbean for 4 months - nice but again expensive.)

[WabiSabi]

Originally Posted by Lorelyen

Perfect is a judgement. It needs some kind of benchmark to compare against.

My reality isn't perfect because I like to feel comfortable in easy clothing and it's so darned cold, I can't. The heating bill would be far too expensive so, were it not for having to earn a living I'd go hibernate in my parents' home (or buzz off to the Caribbean for 4 months - nice but again expensive.)

Wouldn't 'complete' also be a judgement then?