Dependent origination

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

Some really good stuff.

Thank you for the link :)

You are welcome.

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted by Gem

Interesting translation because in all the translations I've see to date transate "sankharapaccaya vinnanam" as either 'kamma formations' or 'volitional formations' where of course kamma is volition. I'm not sure why this author uses 'habitual (kamma) formations', but it's uncommon. It makes sense in it's own way because if you're not aware; that is, 'ignorant', the tendencies or habits usually referred to as 'latent tendencies or "
anusaya" play out in an automated mindless way. The latent tendencies are also 'volitional' even though unintended in the sense that they are generated through kamma, and these are usually related to the unwholesome qualities of mind that perpetuate rebirth.

Why would somebody translate a transliteration?

Why not translate from the source language which is Pali?

[running]

Originally Posted by janielee

Whilst Buddhism lite appeals to many, the original teachings of the a Buddha are actually quite specific and precise.

Core teachings such as anicca, dukkha and anatta are not optional or secondary, they are paramount.

As is dependent origination.

People choose the lite version because it’s easy to theorize and utilize, but it’s not Buddhism, at heart, without the reach of Nibbana.

Here is a teaching below -

In its most complete formulation, Dependent Origination is expressed as:

‘avijjapaccaya sankhara; sankharapaccaya vinnanam; vinnanapaccaya namarupam; namarupapaccaya salayatanam; salayantanapaccaya phasso; phassapaccaya vedana; vedanapaccaya tanha; tanhapaccaya upadanam; upadanapaccaya bhavo; bhavapaccaya jati; jatipaccaya jaramaranam- soka-parideve-dukkha-domanassupayasa sambhavanti, evametassa kevalassa dukkhakhandassa samudayo hoti.’

This deals with arising of dukkha.

The cessation of dukkha is then mapped out:

‘avijjayatveva asesaviraga-nirodha sankharanirodho; sankharanirodha vinnananirodho; vinnananirodha namarupanirodho; namarupanirodha salayatananirodho; salayatananirodha phassanirodho; phassanirodha vedananirodho; vedananirodha tanhanirodho; tanhanirodha upadananirodho; upadananirodha bhavanirodho; bhavanirodha jatinirodho; jatinirodha jaramaranam-soka-parideva-dukkha- domanassupayasa nirujjhanti; evametassa kevalassa dukkhakhandhassa nirodho hoti’.

In English this can be translated as:

Dependent on ignorance are habitual formations; dependent on habitual (kamma) formations is consciousness; dependent on consciousness are name-and-form (mentality-corporeality); dependent on name-and-form are the six sense-bases; dependent on the six sense bases is contact; dependent on contact is feeling; dependent on feeling is desire; dependent on desire is grasping is becoming; dependent on becoming is birth; dependent on birth is old age, sickness and death, sorrow, grief, lamentation, pain and despair.

Through the entire ceasing of this ignorance, habitual formations cease; through the ceasing of habitual formations, consciousness ceases; through the ceasing of consciousness, name-and-form cease; through the ceasing of name-and-form, the six sense-bases cease; through the ceasing of the six- sense bases, contact ceases; through the ceasing of contact, feeling ceases; through the ceasing of feeling, desire ceases; through the ceasing of desire, grasping ceases; through the ceasing of grasping, becoming ceases; through the ceasing of becoming, birth ceases; through the ceasing of birth, old age, sickness and death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, grief and despair come to cease. Thus is the ceasing of this whole mass of suffering.

no mention of whats beyond the mind. if i was to take what is said literaly i would assume its about the removal of being a human being. but we know that is false. as there are countless whom have resolved the concerns mentioned from bliss and silence. where all human qualities can also live. but are comforted by a greater power superceding human qualities. without effort. without concern of what or if human qualities one may have.

either there is a lot missing here. something lost in translation. really bad explanation. the author is nowhere near the possibility many have become to abide in. or iat least in the process yet delusional on where it leads to.

[sky]

Originally Posted by BigJohn

Why would somebody translate a transliteration?

Why not translate from the source language which is Pali?

Your Wife/Daughter/Family will answer your ?s. Buddhist can explain it to you quicker, it's very simple BTW

[sky]

Originally Posted by BigJohn

Not really.

To provide such an answer does explain a lot but then you already know that.

What you claimed was Pali is actually English. This is a classical error. What was provided was a transliteration - not Pali.

As far as I know, transliterations do not get translated. Why would they?

When janielee provided this information, the source of where it was gotten should have been provided. The source is https://www.budsas.org/ebud/ebsut057.htm

' What you claimed was Pali is actually English. '


Definitely not English words, check your English Dictionary and also a Pali Dictionary or maybe even easier ask your Buddhist Family

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted by sky123

Your Wife/Daughter/Family will answer your ?s. Buddhist can explain it to you quicker, it's very simple BTW

If it is so simple, why then did I have to explain why you were mixing transliterations with source language.

For some reason, it went way over your head, but then, you already knew that.

[running]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

Some very good stuff from that link.







Sorry, so much good stuff.. running would like this :)





Some really good stuff.

Thank you for the link :)

for me i saw it as jail and the key out is bliss. so you couldn't be more accurate when you said i would like this. i would just add that for me i see and saw the jail as also the means to the key. since when the jail can cause surrender and the desire to get out. surrender and or desire for a practice which also results to surrender. thus becoming open to the silence and bliss. the key

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted by sky123

' What you claimed was Pali is actually English. '


Definitely not English words, check your English Dictionary and also a Pali Dictionary or maybe even easier ask your Buddhist Family

Pali does not have Romanized characters: that was the first give away.

Even after I have shown the difference of Pali, transliteration and translation you still will not accept.

For example, as you already know:

सङ्खार is pali
sankhara is the transliteration
formation is one of the possible translations

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted by sky123

' What you claimed was Pali is actually English. '


Definitely not English words, check your English Dictionary and also a Pali Dictionary or maybe even easier ask your Buddhist Family

Are you telling me the word "sankhara" is written in Pali? That word is the transliterated Pali word and it is in English.

Do you know what the Pali alphabet looks like?

[sky]

Originally Posted by BigJohn

If it is so simple, why then did I have to explain why you were mixing transliterations with source language.

For some reason, it went way over your head, but then, you already knew that.

It didn't go over my head, it's just not that important to me, the Scriptures are more important