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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Religions & Faiths > North American Indigenous Spirituality

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  #1  
Old 05-04-2018, 11:02 PM
sentient sentient is offline
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Native American Spirituality – Wannabees, Frauds and Shamanism

A very controversial subject matter to bring up - I know – that will stir up a lot of emotions, but once and for all, I would like to get to the bottom of this and hear sentiments from all sides and not just dance around this subject matter.

Very recently I watched a youtube interview with Rainbow Eagle:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Of2qP3Ji6do

Who - by Al Carroll has been declared to be a fraud?
http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index...14135#msg14135

Who in turn has been declared to be a fraud?
https://lookingbackwoman.wordpress.c...mmaking-buddy/

Who in turn has been declared a fraud …….. and so on ……..
So where is the truth in all of this, I wonder?


And why are Europeans so fascinated by Native Americans?
Is it because of our long lost European tribal Aboriginality (i.e. invasions by Near Eastern agriculturalists and Indo-Europeans)?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbCar3aGadc

Or is it because of the Hollywood influence i.e. portrayal of Native Americans as the last true ‘Natives’ on Earth?
But how genuine is this portrayal?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNZBpn9asng


And why do people in general mix Native American Spirituality with Shamanism?
How true/right or wrong is this association?
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  #2  
Old 06-04-2018, 09:43 PM
Native spirit Native spirit is offline
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You ask why Europeans are so Fascinated with Native Americans well I can only answer for myself.
I am welsh so I am a Celt as are the Irish and Scotish. a lot of Native people now have Celtic blood in them.
maybe people are looking at the Earth in different ways.they want to understand it more.
The celtic Nations and the Native Nations are very similar in a lot of respects.
But I have got Native blood in me,so maybe I see it more. my grandmother taught me a lot about my Native ways and I have always incorporated it in how I live. but like I said I can only answer for myself not for anyone else.


Namaste
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  #3  
Old 07-04-2018, 05:25 AM
sentient sentient is offline
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Thank you Native spirit, I do hear what you are saying and also how you are saying it.

I also am proud and have got a soft spot for the Scottish – (originally Irish) favourite ancestor of mine.
A person, who supposedly escaped his enlisting in the Swedish army into the ‘back of the beyond’ woods of the indigenous Finnic (‘Russian’) wild side, taking to it like ‘a duck to water’.
So - nature connection – tick.

He also became the head of one of the biggest families in that area (everybody either became a descendant of or otherwise related to).

His son’s ingenious alternative ways, as in - inventions not only contributed and benefited the family, but in egalitarian fashion the whole village/tribe – thus they had a natural understanding how to act for the benefit of collective whole – tick.

Also some of my closest Oz-Aboriginal friends had a fiddler Irish grandfather who ventured deep into the ‘back of the beyond’ rainforests – took to it like ‘a duck to water’ and his very musical grandchildren - Aboriginal to the core however do have these really unique individual traits, everybody loves and celebrates.
Diversity - which in ‘non-dual spirituality’ you do celebrate as an enrichment to the whole.
Something which I was also brought up and conditioned to ‘see’ as my Reality.
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  #4  
Old 07-04-2018, 12:11 PM
Shaunc Shaunc is offline
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Almost everyone in Australia has Irish blood in them. When the British colonised Australia they didn't have slaves like the U.S. they used Irish convicts instead.
As far as fraud in native American tradition/spirituality. It's probably no better and no worse than any other religion.
At the moment, internationally, the Catholic church probably leads the race in religions behaving badly. I wouldn't be getting too stressed out about a few charlatans.
Now a small Irish joke to end the post on.
What's the difference between an Irish wedding and an Irish funeral. One less drunk.
Good luck and best wishes.
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  #5  
Old 07-04-2018, 10:59 PM
sentient sentient is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaunc
Now a small Irish joke to end the post on.
What's the difference between an Irish wedding and an Irish funeral. One less drunk.
Ok. Alcohol abuse, Indigenous problems and Irish – tick
(This one I only know personally too well).

Quote:
As far as fraud in native American tradition/spirituality. It's probably no better and no worse than any other religion.
Why do you call Native American tradition a religion? I don't know - is it?
Would you call Aboriginal Australian Spirituality a religion?
(Indigenous Shamanism imo. is not a religion either, rather I would call it a ‘worldview’, 'reality orientation' or 'animism in action').

Quote:
I wouldn't be getting too stressed out about a few charlatans.
But have you ever! heard of a fake Australian Aboriginal or even a white Australian doing weekend workshops teaching Aboriginal Spirituality?!
I have not.

The only fraudulent claim I have ever heard of was about Marlo Morgan, an American author, who wrote her bestselling book the “Mutant Message Down Under”.
https://www.creativespirits.info/res...age-down-under
And if you have ever spent time in communities of the Central Desert – the book does not make much sense.

Or Shaunc - have you ever heard of people claiming Aboriginal Australian ancestry – when in reality they do not have it - the way white Americans, even African Americans do claim Native American ancestry?!:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YR_p6PdAIrI
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  #6  
Old 07-04-2018, 11:48 PM
Shaunc Shaunc is offline
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The town I live in is approximately 10% aboriginal but no it's not in the central desert area.
Sure there's an alcohol/drug problem amongst indigenous peoples but if they're refused service then the shopkeeper can be charged under discrimination laws.
I honestly believe that if the alcohol/drug problem amongst indigenous peoples could be cured 90% of the other problems would go away like unemployment, jail, domestic violence, sex abuse, etc.
Unfortunately the cure must come from within their own communities.
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  #7  
Old 08-04-2018, 08:41 AM
sentient sentient is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaunc
The town I live in is approximately 10% aboriginal but no it's not in the central desert area.
Sure there's an alcohol/drug problem amongst indigenous peoples but if they're refused service then the shopkeeper can be charged under discrimination laws.
I honestly believe that if the alcohol/drug problem amongst indigenous peoples could be cured 90% of the other problems would go away like unemployment, jail, domestic violence, sex abuse, etc.
Unfortunately the cure must come from within their own communities.

I gather you are not a wanabee then Shaunc, claiming non-existent Aboriginal ancestry or pretending to be one by painting and feathering yourself up and doing the dances.
(Difficult to even imagine, isn’t it?)

But why do Americans and Europeans pretend to be Amerinds?
I did read the “Why do Danes practice powwow dancing and singing”, but I still don’t get it.
http://www.powwows.dk/eng/en/eng_why.html

Especially in the face of this everyday reality:
https://www.csmonitor.com/World/Euro...ife-in-Denmark

http://www.vestfilm.dk/inukwoman/afilm.html

Why the double standard?
So – sort of back to the original question – why are Europeans so fascinated by Native Americans over other Natives?
Why has 'Native American Spirituality' become a commodity?


I would wish there to be recognition and respect for ALL indigenous cultural identities and spiritual traditions, and also understanding what dispossession from land and family, loss of identity, heritage, culture and language and poor treatment does to people.
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  #8  
Old 08-04-2018, 11:36 PM
sentient sentient is offline
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Never seen a Pow Wow, but here is one I would have liked not to have missed:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_vqlZJofo0

Powerful stuff – makes your hair stand on end.
But behind the spectacle of the performance - a heavier reality, something which the members talk about in the video at the end of this page:
https://www.sbs.com.au/nitv/fragment...d-social-media

For this - Thank You.
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  #9  
Old 10-04-2018, 07:49 AM
Shaunc Shaunc is offline
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I really don't know why the European fascination with native Americans. My guess is that it's to do with Hollywood, but I'm only guessing. All cultures, even European prior to Christianity had their own forms of animism, shamanism, reverence towards nature. Whatever the correct terminology is.
You are correct that I've never heard of someone pretending to be an Australian aboriginal when they're not one, and even if there are a few cases of this happening they're certainly not anywhere near the same numbers as happen with native Americans and it wouldn't be a commercial enterprise like say a new book or self help type of workshop.
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  #10  
Old 11-04-2018, 11:16 AM
1Eris 1Eris is offline
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Native Americans hold onto a culture that Western Europe used to have but lost. I think part of our souls recognise the truth of Native American teachings and way of living without hurting the earth and it calls to us.

I’ve long been able to remember a previous life as a Native American so I’m interested in it for this reason.
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