how do non physical beings store memory??

[organic born]

Originally Posted by neil

The human body is real, although I totally understand were you are going with your thoughts about it.

& if we were to totally awaken we would be still within this body. Because we are tethered to it energetically. ""Universal laws are laws""
Although if we were not hindered from our full soul abilities, we could sever the energetic connection & transition into the life of a spiritual being, & let the physical body decompose....effectively all
owing it to be teaming with decomposing microbes. ....SMILES.

And this to me is the crux of the matter. There are two differing things at play. There is the physical manifestation of matter, in the form of solids, liquid and mineral related substances...and then there's consciousness. The matter part seems to be a very sustained dream by some-one/thing that's been progressing for billions of years. While consciousness is a roving wildcard being expressed in relation to need and imaginative fancy.

All plants, microbes, insects, animals are intently programed for both survival and also as "replicators". You, like all other living beings, are programed to live successfully and to perpetuate the species. If we never thought a single thought we would still be able to perform as nature intended.

Now add the thinking.. Thoughts are add-on's. All the other creatures out there do just fine without the kinds of analyzing/analogizing that we do. They don't drive cars, but neither did we until recently. We survived for years and years without much of a spoken language and with no written languages until the last few seconds of our biological timeline.

So what happens when our biological programing collides with our cultural twist and turns of improvised imagery? I would suspect a few surprises, and not all of them welcomed! Our "thoughts" on sex would predictably collide with our "biologically instilled" sexual programming as a species, with replicating as the imperative goal. And, how we behave in relation to each other would twist and turn around natural inclination verses cultural preferences. Now add to this the foods that we now eat compared to what we were designed around, and the chemicals that our bodies must now absorb and dispose of without our bodies having a single inclination as to what these chemicals are.

Would such a conflict/collision with historical expectation, verses free-flowing thought-created imagery, leave it's mark on both our conscious and unconscious experience-of-being. Would it warp our dreams, would we be trying to rectify this collision with beliefs-about-stuff that exists only as an improvised reaction to a life which is "definitionally" out of sync with our natural evolution?

It seems to me that we as humans have a mess on our hands, which affects us at all levels of perception, both in the waking and dream state. How can we trust the definitions that we come up with considering that our species is currently swimming among the powerful currents of uncharted, and mostly imaginatively-created waters?

[FallingLeaves]

Originally Posted by organic born

And this to me is the crux of the matter. There are two differing things at play. There is the physical manifestation of matter, in the form of solids, liquid and mineral related substances...and then there's consciousness. The matter part seems to be a very sustained dream by some-one/thing that's been progressing for billions of years. While consciousness is a roving wildcard being expressed in relation to need and imaginative fancy.

not so much need, but want. That is one of the basics: most people can't see past gratifying their own wants. Which is fun... but keeps you makin gthe same mistakes over and over.

All plants, microbes, insects, animals are intently programed for both survival and also as "replicators". You, like all other living beings, are programed to live successfully and to perpetuate the species. If we never thought a single thought we would still be able to perform as nature intended.

Now add the thinking.. Thoughts are add-on's. All the other creatures out there do just fine without the kinds of analyzing/analogizing that we do. They don't drive cars, but neither did we until recently. We survived for years and years without much of a spoken language and with no written languages until the last few seconds of our biological timeline.

if nature can intend things then I can ask who is to say whether it intended us to be self-conscious beings? Or are you saying that it seems like there is no point to us being thinking beings so why are we doin it? OTOH I can also ask why anything exists at all, there seems to be no point to that either?

So what happens when our biological programing collides with our cultural twist and turns of improvised imagery? I would suspect a few surprises, and not all of them welcomed! Our "thoughts" on sex would predictably collide with our "biologically instilled" sexual programming as a species, with replicating as the imperative goal. And, how we behave in relation to each other would twist and turn around natural inclination verses cultural preferences. Now add to this the foods that we now eat compared to what we were designed around, and the chemicals that our bodies must now absorb and dispose of without our bodies having a single inclination as to what these chemicals are.

unfortunately that is the whole point of this exercise.

Would such a conflict/collision with historical expectation, verses free-flowing thought-created imagery, leave it's mark on both our conscious and unconscious experience-of-being. Would it warp our dreams, would we be trying to rectify this collision with beliefs-about-stuff that exists only as an improvised reaction to a life which is "definitionally" out of sync with our natural evolution?

I started wondering one day, why I had to make a distinction in my mind between 'natural' evolution and the evolutionary 'mess' we've made. In an objective sense why would one be preferable to the other (but I know that in the subjective sense we would hypothetically prefer one over the other because we want to know the 'right' way to do things which is also kinda the reason the mess had to be made to begin with). But yes I think every little difference affects a lot of different things, kinda like that butterfly flapping its wings..

It seems to me that we as humans have a mess on our hands, which affects us at all levels of perception, both in the waking and dream state. How can we trust the definitions that we come up with considering that our species is currently swimming among the powerful currents of uncharted, and mostly imaginatively-created waters?

Really you can't. It is all wrong, every last bit of it. It is a testament to life that we can survive this.

[Divine Consciousness]

Well soul in eternity have its kaaran sharir (Nature or instinct body) of earlier life and more over it they are having consciousness.

These help them live in eternity.

[organic born]

Originally Posted by FallingLeaves

not so much need, but want. That is one of the basics: most people can't see past gratifying their own wants. Which is fun... but keeps you makin gthe same mistakes over and over.

But I'm suggesting that this is the case with the serious seekers as well.

Originally Posted by FallingLeaves

if nature can intend things then I can ask who is to say whether it intended us to be self-conscious beings? Or are you saying that it seems like there is no point to us being thinking beings so why are we doin it? OTOH I can also ask why anything exists at all, there seems to be no point to that either?

Natural selection has created a lot of dead ends along the way. "Thinking" is a pretty bold step. With thought we are able to imagine things that aren't there. We can build complex scenarios with little to no physical validation. When speaking of a god, or jesus, or Atlantis, or evil beings, or blessed angels, we can totally imagine such things, and because of the act of imagining we can mistake them as something that we must incorporate into our daily view of how things are. I assume you've been on this forum long enough to see all manor of belief being expressed where the person doing the expressing is convinced that such views are intrinsically important. And yet they dynamically conflict with the views of the next person in line because their experience with the imagined suggests otherwise. Some people do wars over such believing, or actively hate others because of what they are imagining.

And even if there was a god, or jesus, or Atlantis, or evil beings, or blessed angels, each individual would imagine them differently based on the manor in which their thoughts formulate such things.

Nature itself isn't nearly as free-flowing. If you were to go back some 50,000 years ago and pluck a newborn child and bring them to today, you would be able to raise them alongside every other child of that age and, as an adult, you wouldn't notice a difference with the rest of us. Nature does not flip on a dime, belief systems can and do. And they very-wildly based on locations, and among the individuals within those locations.

Thinking is a great thing as long as we're aware of what we're doing. Nature does not operate off of belief. In nature, if it works it lives, if it doesn't it's genes are not reproduced. As we progressively leave our connection with nature (since we no longer individually farm or hunt and gather, or travel by foot, and are progressively thinking among the thoughts of those who think thoughts, for the sake of thinking thoughts without any real physical tether) then at some point our effectiveness as a species will likely be untenable in terms of what nature persistently designs itself around.

Originally Posted by FallingLeaves

Really you can't. It is all wrong, every last bit of it. It is a testament to life that we can survive this.

Exactly! I'm suggesting it's wrong because we are grossly out of sync with what it takes to align with natural priorities. We are thinking without discipline, we are dreaming without connectivity, we are assuming without checking for functionality. Our minds have been relegated to the task of perpetual fantasy. Clearly such a use of a thinking mind is not biologically sustainable for the long haul... and considering all the ego games going on out there, and the weapons at their disposal, it's quite amazing that we're still sitting here to talk about it..

[FallingLeaves]

Originally Posted by organic born

But I'm suggesting that this is the case with the serious seekers as well.

Natural selection has created a lot of dead ends along the way. "Thinking" is a pretty bold step. With thought we are able to imagine things that aren't there. We can build complex scenarios with little to no physical validation. When speaking of a god, or jesus, or Atlantis, or evil beings, or blessed angels, we can totally imagine such things, and because of the act of imagining we can mistake them as something that we must incorporate into our daily view of how things are.

it is kinda like an addiction... only the kind that is praised, not the kind that is to be avoided

I assume you've been on this forum long enough to see all manor of belief being expressed where the person doing the expressing is convinced that such views are intrinsically important. And yet they dynamically conflict with the views of the next person in line because their experience with the imagined suggests otherwise. Some people do wars over such believing, or actively hate others because of what they are imagining.

exactly

And even if there was a god, or jesus, or Atlantis, or evil beings, or blessed angels, each individual would imagine them differently based on the manor in which their thoughts formulate such things.

Nature itself isn't nearly as free-flowing. If you were to go back some 50,000 years ago and pluck a newborn child and bring them to today, you would be able to raise them alongside every other child of that age and, as an adult, you wouldn't notice a difference with the rest of us.

I hate to go the opposite direction suddenly, but may I ask how you KNOW this? Given you probably weren't there 50000 years ago to know that the difference between people now and people then wouldn't preclude it, and noone could actually perform such an experiment anyway, at least not yet. How did you verify it is not a belief the same way as pink unicorns?

Nature does not flip on a dime, belief systems can and do. And they very-wildly based on locations, and among the individuals within those locations.

Thinking is a great thing as long as we're aware of what we're doing. Nature does not operate off of belief. In nature, if it works it lives, if it doesn't it's genes are not reproduced. As we progressively leave our connection with nature (since we no longer individually farm or hunt and gather, or travel by foot, and are progressively thinking among the thoughts of those who think thoughts, for the sake of thinking thoughts without any real physical tether) then at some point our effectiveness as a species will likely be untenable in terms of what nature persistently designs itself around.

Exactly! I'm suggesting it's wrong because we are grossly out of sync with what it takes to align with natural priorities. We are thinking without discipline, we are dreaming without connectivity, we are assuming without checking for functionality. Our minds have been relegated to the task of perpetual fantasy. Clearly such a use of a thinking mind is not biologically sustainable for the long haul... and considering all the ego games going on out there, and the weapons at their disposal, it's quite amazing that we're still sitting here to talk about it..

[metal68]

Originally Posted by neil

OK for starters, I say & most astral travelers of the human kind won't agree, that whether you believe it or not, when you are out of body, you still are being hindered by dark beings. A very complex subject.

Some travelers can detect the presence of beings with them, & the rest of the travelers have no awareness of them....& believe it or not, they are with them every moment of their out of body experience.

WHY, well, I would rather not go down that information path at the moment.

So they are there, & if lets say it were true for you, then think how they can affect your ability to feel & experience everything the way prime creator designed us to be able to.

You see, we have a god given right & ability to interact, knowingly with every sence of our being with everybody in the spiritual form from our physical body.

"BUT"..& here is the unbelievable part, every single human being, is being hindered in the highest degree from doing just that.

What unloving creator would design it so that a being could not interact with their transitioned loved ones, especially lets say a child who is still in the flesh & the childs mother or father transitioned all of a sudden in a freak accident.

The parent should be able to travel from their new home in the spiritual realm, & come right up to the child & interact all knowingly in every way that they used to before the freak accident & the child should be able to exercise the god give right & abilities to experience it all fully.
& that would be the case for every single earthling.

& how is it possible for a disembodied soul as you call them, to experience the human for similar to before the transition.

Well the energies of the universe are all intelligent & flw through us 100% of the time, & the soul is a very powerful creating device that interacts with that energy to help make it all happen, another very complex subject...or I should say we as soul beings are all very powerful creating beings....if we were not being hindered 24/7 moment by moment.

& so the spiritual body manefest eyes, ears skin ext ext ext acording to the qualities of the soul condition, & the spiritual body operates through the sences of the soul & in consonance with those energies, & making it seem as though the spiritual body is experiencing it all & doing it all, & it is happening in a far greater intensity.

& mind you if we were not being hindered in any way shape or form we as humans could experience every thing just as the people in the spiritual form do, because all experiences from the human form & the spiritual form of the human, should travel to & fro via the energy connection interface which is all enmeshed together & operating as one whole unit.

But every spiritually minded human, believes that their is a naturally occurring veil that stops us from interacting with all who have transitioned.
& sure their is a veil, but the veil is an unloving act created by unloving beings to stop us from accessing the truth of our god given design as powerful creators even as humans.

AND I CAN TELL YOU, THAT I HAVE, EXPERIENCED, THIS ENERGETIC VEIL, THAT IS USED IN MANY DIFFERENT WAYS & FOR MANY DIFFERENT REASONS....
......I have had it rolled up from toes to the top of my chest, exposing my limbs & torso to unbelievable occurrences that I had no Idea were happening in & around & of me as a spiritual human being.

AND they thought it amusing to tell me that, this moment will be the last time that I will ever in my human life ever experience those fantastic occurrences ever again.

AND they then rolled it back down from neck to toe & all around me till my senses became dulled down again.
& I have not experienced those occurrences since.

I at that time was a different being in human form, experiencing & enjoying music, sounds, vibrations, ext ext ext for the very first time in my life.

I could rattle on about every other thing that they do to me moment to moment, but if you have people partners children adults that depend on you being on earth to assist them in a capable way, then you shouldn't have the knowledge as it can 100% destroy your life as a human, as it has done to myself.

I think I should stop here.
Regards Neil.

Ps I am not going to proof read this post, as the dark ones are slightly giving me grief.

Pss. The spiritual person, feels the energy that is drawn together from the intelligent energies of the universe, to replicate the look & feel of skin.

& it does it because they the spiritual being (ex physical being) have a blue print...(I guess you could call it as such) of their human dna code recorded in their soul/within themselves & also the memories of how their skin used to feel & look as a human, & through the magic & intelligences of soul & energies of the universe it all manifest to an even more heightened sence & form, thantit does as a human does & should, because they are now an un hindered spiritual being, unlike the human.

Psss. how GOOD eh, is the info in the book "teaming with microbes"
I read it quite a few yrs back.
I was going to suggest it to you via private mail but unfortunately you were not set up for p/m.
& then I noticed that you said in a post the other day, that you have a publication anyway

Some fascinating responses on here; this is one that really sticks out for me as I'm having difficulty in understanding why my late mother (2 years passed) and to whom I was very close, is not reaching out to me. Neither has my father who passed away 30 plus years ago. Its disheartening particularly when the man who committed suicide in my house back in the 1960s certainly made his presence known back in the early 80s!!

[organic born]

Originally Posted by FallingLeaves

I hate to go the opposite direction suddenly, but may I ask how you KNOW this? Given you probably weren't there 50000 years ago to know that the difference between people now and people then wouldn't preclude it, and noone could actually perform such an experiment anyway, at least not yet. How did you verify it is not a belief the same way as pink unicorns?

You would have to read some of the books that I've run across in order to see what I'm referring to. Here's some of my favorite:

The Last Ape Standing by Chip Walter
A Brief History of Humankind by Yuval Harari
Sex at Dawn by Christoper Ryan
Not So Different; finding Human Nature in Animals by Nathan H. Lents
The Story of the Human Body, by Daniel Lieberman

These each are wonderfully researched and a most pleasant change from all the new age attempts that I've read over these many years (30+) which tried to approach our history through spiritualist style dialogues. These above writers draw from the buried and fossilized records, as well as from what's known about the more current inhabitants of isolated indigenous tribes.

It's taken me a couple of years to wrap my head around this stuff while looking through the differing scientific approaches to, not only our history as a species, but relative to how our brains work as well. There is belief built into what they are saying because they are forced to extrapolate based on the clues that they currently have, but they are wide open to changing such opinions should such needs occur. So belief in this case is conditional and not hardened. It's a product of a massive accumulation of in-the-field studies and cross-referencing. In total they help to rewrite and clarify the way we think about where we came from as a highly adaptive species.

I don't need to 'believe' in it the way one would need to believe in a religion or some other such teachings that requires similar. It's simply a fascinating exposure to richly resourced information.

Now I'm sure if a fossilized/long-frozen unicorn was found intact during an onsite excavation then that would instantly be added to the mix as well. So far nothing, so no belief has been formulated in it's absence.

[muffin]

Originally Posted by neil

The highest Sincere regards
Neil.

Just think what the first parents could do with their abilities of the soul, within their lives & environment. Im not sure if you believe in the reality of the first parents though.

Good afternoon neil

Could you please expand on this

[organic born]

Originally Posted by metal68

Some fascinating responses on here; this is one that really sticks out for me as I'm having difficulty in understanding why my late mother (2 years passed) and to whom I was very close, is not reaching out to me. Neither has my father who passed away 30 plus years ago. Its disheartening particularly when the man who committed suicide in my house back in the 1960s certainly made his presence known back in the early 80s!!

The priorities of the soul are not the priorities of this current lifetime. My mother pasted several years ago and though I've been 'consciously' in the presence of other souls in my time her presence has so far remained silent in ways that I can physically be aware of (there's no telling what's occurring while I'm asleep). If conscious contact was important then I'm sure it would occur, but again, priorities are uniquely conditional.

[neil]

Originally Posted by muffin

Good afternoon neil

Could you please expand on this

The intelligent energy of the universe can be used to create or alter anything, so if the first parents were feeling cold the could alter the energy that is within their being to be warm.
If they were to hot they could cool the energy within them.
They could turn it into a protective barrier of whatever intensity that nothing could perpetrate.....so they had safety from anything mother nature could throw at them

The energy was within every part of their being, so via thought they could have the energy levitate them & then propel them in whatever direction they chose. Awesome eh.

No limit to what they could do with the energy via the intelligent design of the soul.
.