Origin of the Universe

[psychoslice]

Originally Posted by Greybeard

This is the "astronomy" section of this spiritual forum, and is dedicated to "a more scientific viewpoint."

And, yes....you are free to believe the Moon is made of green cheese if it pleases you.

Have you been to the moon ?, how do you know its not made of cheese ? lo. Come on give us a smile, that's worth a lot more than any silly theory.

Twenty-five or thirty years ago I realized that the spiritual aspect cannot be separated from the material or physical. I realized at that time that my own separation of the two realms (which are in fact one realm) was simply an expression of escapist tendencies on my part. By planting my feet solidly on the ground, while keeping my head and heart "in the heavens" I established a firm foundation for my spiritual growth.

Gee....I think someone brought back a basket full of rocks from the Moon...I haven't heard any reports of Provolone being found there.

Originally Posted by Greybeard

For goodness sakes. I simply provided a brief history of the universe as modern science understands it at this moment. And am treated like a heretic.

The summary was very good.

Don't see discussion about it as problematic though or even bringing up other issues or POVs as combative. It is very useful to explore these issues from all areas, both scientific & metaphysical.

[psychoslice]

Originally Posted by Greybeard

Twenty-five or thirty years ago I realized that the spiritual aspect cannot be separated from the material or physical. I realized at that time that my own separation of the two realms (which are in fact one realm) was simply an expression of escapist tendencies on my part. By planting my feet solidly on the ground, while keeping my head and heart "in the heavens" I established a firm foundation for my spiritual growth.

Now i like that, so true, some do go too fare to either side and miss out on all that is happening, right here, right NOW.

I wonder what it is about "science" that so many people find so obnoxious.

The word "science" comes originally from the Latin and simply means "knowledge." Science is the disciplined study of things in an attempt to "get at the truth" of them. Why is that so repugnant to some people?

I do not believe that science is the "be-all and end-all" of things, but it is a good way to learn about the physical universe we live in. Things that properly lie within the ken of "the scientific method" are best studied by using that method. It is what leads to the clearest understanding of our physical world. Clearly, there are things that are not suited to the "scientific" approach, and we should use other means to understand them. But why this aversion to anything "scientific" simply because it is called "science"?

And by the way, regarding the comparison of gravity and Spirit....

Gravity is a physical force, and it can be measured and predicted. The future effects of a planet, say Jupiter, on a passing spacecraft can be accurately foretold by means of mathematics. Sit under an apple tree, and...Bonk!...you will know the tangible reality of gravity.

No such feat is possible with Spirit. The two things are not in the same class, even though both are invisible. The two are essentially different, and such a comparison holds no validity.

I think the gap between science and spirituality is closing, more so than ever before. I have always been interested in scientific discoveries to see whether they support spiritual beliefs.

The belief that there is life after death is a case in point. Medical doctors are now investigating NDEs, or rather the fact that consciousness needs no body. One of Pim van Lommel's (cardiologist) NDE patients told him "The body needs me but I do not need the body."

You need the body as long as you wish to be a living creature capable of testing and refining the spirit. As we can see from 0=+1-1, the Spirit unmanifest is nothing. If we look at E=mc2, we see that without space-time (both space and time are implicit in the speed of light and if c2=0, then there is no space-time and the value of the equation is zero) there is neither mass nor energy. Hmm. This means that in order for Spirit to Be, it must Create space-time....a paradox, for how can Nothing create Something? And of course within the question the answer is found. The Spirit is Creative, as we discover in Genesis, where God's First Act was..."In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth" (i.e., space-time). And we are made in God's image; we are first and foremost creative beings.

Faith without works is dead.

To divorce Spirit from Body is to flee into a world of fantasy and delusion. If we are "on this Earth" or "incarnate" it is probably for some reason, and that reason cannot be to deny the reality of the body and life as embodied Spirit.

The evidence supporting the truth of the Big Bang is overwhelming. Standard Cosmology (a fancy name for the Big Bang) posits a finite universe, one that had a beginning. It deals with THIS universe, the one you and I know and love because we live (have our being) in it. It does not deal with alternate universes directly (although it certainly does not deny the possibility of their existence [it in fact suggests that they are highly likely; but for today, we can't know anything about that and our focus in this cosmology is the universe we know] and it does not deal with what may have preceded this universe. The Planck Constant makes it impossible to go there.

So, considering only this universe we know, the Big Bang describes the "mechanism of creation." And the picture it gives us is that ALL THINGS IN EXISTENCE, PAST, PRESENT, OR FUTURE are One, because they share a common origin.

I can always rely upon this subject to give me a good chuckle.

The fact that mere human beings, scientists or not, genuinely believe they can even attempt to answer the question of how the universe came into being is utterly laughable to me, not to mention breathtakingly arrogant.

We know nothing and probably never will. It is something well beyond human understanding and will remain so.

It's all guesswork and ridiculous theories based on a miniscule amount of knowledge of our own little corner of the universe. It's not even 100 years since the invention of television, less than 20 years since the internet became commonplace, barely 30 years since the introduction of the home computer and only 50 years since the first manned space flight and scientists can barely predict the weather and still have no cure for the common cold yet they think they can answer the ultimate question.

It's absurd.