Do humans need to worship God, or Gods?

[Miss Hepburn]

Ah ...Thomas...good!

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

I agree with this of course. (the bolded)
What i am curious about is the next sentence. Could you say more on where Jesus's teachings would emphasize this?
Boy, would I ever be interested io that subject!

Like, I realize he was trying to show the power that 'he had we have', also.... and yay....
we can walk on water, we can heal and do greater things even.
I see Jesus as a great teacher of getting us out of our self-imposed limitations.

There's actually a long history that needs to be thought about for this to make any real sense, and I guess people would worship Jesus and have their beliefs as truths rather than seek any kind of true wisdom. But anyway.... The Christians (and the school of religion that was to become Christianity) taught God Without - as in God in heaven, up there... so on. Christ Consciousness comes from the ancient Egyptian Gnostics who taught God Within - as in inside us. Jesus himself was most likely as Nazorean Essenne, which was a Gnostic sect. What many people do is try and understand Jesus in the context of God Without, when what he was actually talking about was looking within and not without. And so

Jesus said, "If those who lead you say, 'See, the Kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they
say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the Kingdom is inside of you, and it is outside of you. When you come to know yourselves, then you will become known, and you will realize that it is you who are the sons of the living Father. But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."

By the way Ketzer, you sneaked in before me so I'm stealing it back.


What you also have to consider is that Jesus had to phrase everything to be understood by those people at that time, just like every other religion. What Jesus was saying needs to be 'translated' to suit contemporary consciousness. So....

[/quote]Jesus said, "If those who lead you say, 'See, the Kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they
say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you.[/quote]Simply, they know and you don't, and they have power over you because you give them that power.

Rather, the Kingdom is inside of you, and it is outside of you.

"There is nothing that is not Source."

When you come to know yourselves, then you will become known, and you will realize that it is you who are the sons of the living Father

The Universe is a reflection of you and when you come into alignment/harmony with yourself, so will everyone else. You are an aspect of Source expressing itself.

But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty
and it is you who are that poverty."

Pretty much self explanatory.


As soon as you say "God is......", "I worship....", "I Love...." the birds in the sky and the fish in the sea precede you. It is you who are the sons/aspects of the Living Father/Source.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOaPBuoWqXw

Originally Posted by ketzer

Discovering one's own inner divinity is more or less how I understand this one. It also sounds sort of Buddhist, as in achievement of enlightenment and freedom from Samsara. You being the physical body, and inner divinity being what needs to be brought forth.

Pretty much, yes.

AUM is arguably the Buddhist sacred sound syllable, it's the most complete vibrational expression the human voice is capable of. The vibrations start deep in the chest, rise through the throat and finish in the lips as they are expressed into this plane of existence. That's pretty much comparable to a few other concepts, that we are expressions/aspects of Spirit/Source/God. "Aum Mane Padme Hum" translates as "All hail to the Jewel of the Lotus", one of the meanings of "Jewel of the Lotus" is our own divinity. Jesus called it the Kingdom.

Apparently Jesus went AWOL for 16 years, and he went Journeying to meet gurus from all different cultures - some say that Jesus' teachings are rooted in Buddhism and not Christianity. I remember seeing a list of Buddhist sayings and their equivalents from Jesus - and they were pretty much identical. Here though, Jesus uses the word "father", the implication there I'd guess is to instil the idea of 'offspring' or 'offshoot'. The Sufis use the word Monad as the Higher Self equivalent - of which we are an aspect, Buddhism has the Oneself/Overself and we are aspects or expressions of Source. They all say close enough to the same thing.

Matt Khan talks of the First Wave of Ascension, which is not about us shedding these bulky bags of water and ascending to a higher plane of existence, it's about bringing down fifth-dimensional consciousness into this dimension. Isn't that what Jesus, Buddha and many others were trying to do?

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Pretty much, yes.

AUM is arguably the Buddhist sacred sound syllable, it's the most complete vibrational expression the human voice is capable of. The vibrations start deep in the chest, rise through the throat and finish in the lips as they are expressed into this plane of existence. That's pretty much comparable to a few other concepts, that we are expressions/aspects of Spirit/Source/God. "Aum Mane Padme Hum" translates as "All hail to the Jewel of the Lotus", one of the meanings of "Jewel of the Lotus" is our own divinity. Jesus called it the Kingdom.

Apparently Jesus went AWOL for 16 years, and he went Journeying to meet gurus from all different cultures - some say that Jesus' teachings are rooted in Buddhism and not Christianity. I remember seeing a list of Buddhist sayings and their equivalents from Jesus - and they were pretty much identical. Here though, Jesus uses the word "father", the implication there I'd guess is to instil the idea of 'offspring' or 'offshoot'. The Sufis use the word Monad as the Higher Self equivalent - of which we are an aspect, Buddhism has the Oneself/Overself and we are aspects or expressions of Source. They all say close enough to the same thing.

Matt Khan talks of the First Wave of Ascension, which is not about us shedding these bulky bags of water and ascending to a higher plane of existence, it's about bringing down fifth-dimensional consciousness into this dimension. Isn't that what Jesus, Buddha and many others were trying to do?

That was a very beautiful post and an extremely powerful message...very well done!

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Pretty much, yes.

AUM is arguably the Buddhist sacred sound syllable, it's the most complete vibrational expression the human voice is capable of. The vibrations start deep in the chest, rise through the throat and finish in the lips as they are expressed into this plane of existence. That's pretty much comparable to a few other concepts, that we are expressions/aspects of Spirit/Source/God. "Aum Mane Padme Hum" translates as "All hail to the Jewel of the Lotus", one of the meanings of "Jewel of the Lotus" is our own divinity. Jesus called it the Kingdom.

Apparently Jesus went AWOL for 16 years, and he went Journeying to meet gurus from all different cultures - some say that Jesus' teachings are rooted in Buddhism and not Christianity. I remember seeing a list of Buddhist sayings and their equivalents from Jesus - and they were pretty much identical. Here though, Jesus uses the word "father", the implication there I'd guess is to instil the idea of 'offspring' or 'offshoot'. The Sufis use the word Monad as the Higher Self equivalent - of which we are an aspect, Buddhism has the Oneself/Overself and we are aspects or expressions of Source. They all say close enough to the same thing.

Matt Khan talks of the First Wave of Ascension, which is not about us shedding these bulky bags of water and ascending to a higher plane of existence, it's about bringing down fifth-dimensional consciousness into this dimension. Isn't that what Jesus, Buddha and many others were trying to do?

The whole AUM vibrational thing was always a bit of an oddity to me until I learned about quantum field theory. The fact that all forms of matter arise from the interaction of consciousness with the vibrational waves of the quantum field puts it in a whole new light (pun intended). It really is one big symphony, and the music is in the ear of the beholder.

I also like this idea of Jesus's use of the Son of Man as a reference to what the soul is evolving toward. Having come from God and discovering or bringing forth it's own divinity. Conquering evil within itself, Samsara is no longer needed and thereby one conquers death, and makes possible full realization of its unity with God.

BBC has a pretty good documentary out about the theory of Jesus having traveled to the east during the lost years. There are also some pretty interesting accounts of what happened after the crucifixion which would lend credence to the idea that the ascension was not a permanent physical one into heaven (which I don't think of as a place anyway). Of course nobody knows what happened 2000 years ago, but personally I find the idea of Jesus as a returning bodhisattva makes a great deal more sense than Jesus as a human sacrifice to an angry God lusting for human blood as payment for sin. The wise men story fits nicely with the idea of a search party looking for a reincarnated lama. If so, perhaps that is why he might have been sent east once he started causing a ruckus in the Temples by correcting the rabbis. Apparently he caused a ruckus in the east too and was run out of town after town there as well. I guess a Pharisee by any other name still stinks the same.

Not sure about that whole 5th dimensional thing. Dimension is a word tossed about a lot on spirituality forums. Are we talking about the 5th dimension in super string theory (or something like that), or some other conception of the 5th dimension?

[linen53]

Worship definition:

to honor or reverence as a divine being or supernatural power

to regard with great or extravagant respect, honor, or devotion

I do neither of these two. I am grateful to the creator for what I have but no I don't 'worship'.

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Jesus said, "If those who lead you say, 'See, the Kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they
say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you.

If this is from Thomas, you didn't say, I can't use it...the Christians I talk to won't accept it
if it's not from the Bible...you know the type.

But, great post none the less, thank you.

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by ketzer

The whole AUM vibrational thing was always a bit of an oddity to me until I learned about quantum field theory.
The fact that all forms of matter arise from the interaction of consciousness with the vibrational waves of
the quantum field puts it in a whole new light (pun intended).
It really is one big symphony, and the music is in the ear of the beholder.

You're no dummy are you?
What a welcome addition here!

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

If this is from Thomas, you didn't say, I can't use it...the Christians I talk to won't accept it
if it's not from the Bible...you know the type.

But, great post none the less, thank you.

Thomas Yes, but KJV has a similar version.

Luke 17:20-22 King James Version (KJV)
20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:

21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

AUM is arguably the Buddhist sacred sound syllable, it's the most complete vibrational expression the human voice is capable of. The vibrations start deep in the chest, rise through the throat and finish in the lips as they are expressed into this plane of existence.

AUM or OM is certainly used in Buddhism but surely it predates Buddhism. It is discussed in the Upanishads, for example, excerpts from the Mandukya Upanishad:

All is OM: Hari Om. The whole universe is the syllable Om. Following is the exposition of Om. Everything that was, is, or will be is, in truth Om. All else which transcends time, space, and causation is also Om.

Atman has Four Aspects: All of this, everywhere, is in truth Brahman, the Absolute Reality. This very Self itself, Atman, is also Brahman, the Absolute Reality. This Atman or Self has four aspects through which it operates.

Those Four are the Same with “A-U-M” and Silence: That Om, though described as having four states, is indivisible; it is pure Consciousness itself. That Consciousness is Om. The three sounds A-U-M (ah, ou, mm) and the three letters A, U, M are identical with the three states of waking, dreaming, and sleeping, and these three states are identical with the three sounds and letters. The fourth state, Turiya is to be realized only in the silence behind or beyond the other three.

Silence after “A-U-M” is the True Self: The fourth aspect is the soundless aspect of Om. It is not utterable and is not comprehended through the senses or by the mind. With the cessation of all phenomena, even of bliss, this soundless aspect becomes known. It is a state of nondual (advaita) reality—one without a second. This fourth state, Turiya, is the real Self or true Self. One with direct experience of this expands to Universal Consciousness.

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Apparently Jesus went AWOL for 16 years, and he went Journeying to meet gurus from all different cultures - some say that Jesus' teachings are rooted in Buddhism and not Christianity.

There have been discussions elsewhere on this subject in SF, with references to The Aquarian Gospel of Jesus the Christ by Levi Dowling and the controversial claims by Nicolas Notovitch.

Peace.